Originally Posted By fkurucz <<No. They don't. They don't have a clue how bad it is for so many.>> I simply find it amazing that in spite of all the terrible evidence that things are getting worse and the bottom is nowhere in sight, that the stock market could have a 20% rally based on a short term "fix" (the "bad bank" fix), knowing full well that it will take countless trillions to buy up all the toxic debt and that in reality it is an unfeasible solution. It would be like the passengers on the Titanic foresaking the lifeboats because someone organized a bucket brigade. I have psycologically prepared myself to lose my home within the next 12 months, as there is a non trivial chance that I will be laid off, and if that happens I know that it will be virtually impossible to find another job within that timeframe, and there is no way we could sell our house for what we owe on it. I have already asked my mortgage company for a loan modification and so far they have been quite receptive to my request and promised me an offer in a couple of weeks. I personally know folks who have been laid off and haven't been able to find work in over a year, and the job market just keeps getting worse. These folks were top performers, many with 10 or more patents under their belts. This past week alone Kodak, Agilent and Advanced Energy announced mass layoffs that will affect about 1000 workers here in Larimer County, most of them well paid white collar workers. Somehow I don't think that a part time, $10/hr job at will prove to be an adequate substitute, nor will they be able to pay their bills with a $400/week unemployment check. I know I can't. I am especially irritated with the bogus unemployment numbers we are fed. The official rate here in Larimer County, Colorado is a mere 7%. Anyone remember in Econ 101 where we were told that 6% is the "full employment" rate? One would think that 7% wouldn't be so bad then. Yet when a new Embassy Suites out here had a job fair last month (for 100 mostly menial jobs) 2000 people showed up, many with degrees. A new Walmart will be opening soon in Ft. Collins and they are expecting mobs of people to apply for their horrible jobs as well. A local megachurch is trying to create its own job placement office/board. Its pastor told a local reporter that over 10% of his flock is unemployed. I am constantly being bombarded with requests for help from the local food banks as they are overwhelmed with people askimg for help. It must be nice to be an executive, not being worried about paying bills or feeding the family. Knowing well that if they are terminated that they will get a severance package that would put most state lotto jackpots to shame.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> ~Hummus anyone?~ << Only if I ever become reconciled to the fact that I ate tofu.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Or they can simply stick ads into the storylines of their soaps involving children dying of cancer and asking their parents to take them to WDW for SEVEN nights with parents saying they can only afford FOUR (do you see where this is going)? << If that's true Spirit, that is one of the most despicable things I have ever heard about a corporation. Please find out if it is. >> They don't realize that the one best thing they can do for their company is to KEEP workers, HIRE more and SPEND money. << You've listed the only way to get out of a recession/depression. Government can't spend their way out, because it's the people's money they are using. The people can only spend their way out if they have jobs. People can only have jobs if business decides to make smart decisions with a long term goal. Invest in the people, and you invest in yourself, and America.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^^I'm not really expecting the layoff. Maybe a 10% chance. More likely we will get our pay cut (again), which is why I requested a mortgage mod. The modification would probably be a temporary reduction of the interest rate (maybe even to zero) but could also involve some principal reduction as well. But if I am laid off I will not burn through my severance and 401(k) to "save the house".
Originally Posted By MPierce ^^^At least you have a contingency plan in place. That's always a wise thing to do.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<People can only have jobs if business decides to make smart decisions with a long term goal.>> And that is where the problem lies: the short sightedness of Wall St., which demands short term results. They have been leading us down the path of destruction for decades. If they cannot or refuse to learn from their mistakes then there is no choice but for the government to intervene (especially when it bails out businesses). If this means salary caps for execs and better laws to protect workers, then so be it.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> And that is where the problem lies: the short sightedness of Wall St., which demands short term results. They have been leading us down the path of destruction for decades. If they cannot or refuse to learn from their mistakes then there is no choice but for the government to intervene (especially when it bails out businesses). If this means salary caps for execs and better laws to protect workers, then so be it. << Being a Right Wing Whacko I am a big proponent of Capitalism, and less Government. However, I agree with you fkurucz. Business has shown it has become irresponsible. The only way it would seem we can get back on track is with Government regulations, and oversite for the time being. I don't have much faith in the Government right now, so I hope the American people will attempt to closely monitor both Big Business, and Government. Maybe the pain that is being experience by many CM's at Disney now, can be avoided in the future.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Government can't spend their way out, because it's the people's money they are using.>> The really scary part is that now its not even that. The rest of the world is starting to view our paper as toxic and aren't buying the US Bonds the way they used to. So the Federal Reserve is printing money and buying the bonds themselves.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<They'll be discussing a world currency at the G20 summit also.>> No doubt because we are monetizing our debt. Bear in mind that this world currency won't be a real currency that people would carry in their wallets (The Mundo?). It would be a pseudo currency like the old "Eurodollars". Of course this mean that all the cr@p we import wouldn't be priced in US dollars anymore. WalMart might have to change its slogan ("Always low prices"). This will be a rude awakening for the middle and lower classes. Kids need new shoes? They're gonna cost a whole lot more than before. We had better learn to make our own stuff again real soon.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Or they can simply stick ads into the storylines of their soaps involving children dying of cancer and asking their parents to take them to WDW for SEVEN nights with parents saying they can only afford FOUR (do you see where this is going)? << <<If that's true Spirit, that is one of the most despicable things I have ever heard about a corporation. Please find out if it is.>> A friend of mine was so angry about it that he has sent it on to a few reporters, including the dude who 'allegedly' covers Disney for the O-Sentinel. But real journalism doesn't exist in this country anymore and people are losing jobs left and right (Miami Herald just laid off 150 people, including someone I know well) so I'd be shocked if they pursue it. They're lazy. I was sent a copy of said email that went to Jason Garcia of the Sentinel and another Florida-based writer. My friend called it 'grotesque' and I would agree. I am hoping the person at ABC Daytime knows something ... but I've also contacted a friend who used to star on the show (albeit years ago) and see if she may have an 'in' with any writers. It just sickens you to the core when you realize someone (my money is on Zenia or someone in her office under direction from above) thought they'd use a heartwrenching storyline to shill their Buy 4, Get 3 Free deal in such an underhanded way. Do they think their viewers are that stupid? It is about as subtle as blowing up your home to get you to wake up in the morning. My friend seems to think (and I don't disagree after hearing what was broadcast) that the Dad was supposed to walk in and say something like 'thanks to that deal, we can go for seven nights and make your dream come true' and the people at OLTL simply flat out refused even if Iger was pulling the strings. How does $hit like that happen? Seriously. There's no defense for advertising in such a deceitful, disgusting manner. >> They don't realize that the one best thing they can do for their company is to KEEP workers, HIRE more and SPEND money. << <<You've listed the only way to get out of a recession/depression. Government can't spend their way out, because it's the people's money they are using. The people can only spend their way out if they have jobs. People can only have jobs if business decides to make smart decisions with a long term goal. Invest in the people, and you invest in yourself, and America.>> One trillion percent accurate. Everything Disney (and all these companies) does just perpetuates a spiral that will make it time for a 21st Century Grapes of Wrath. You can't rebuild the economy by continuing to destroy. Blank Wall Street ... but playing the stock game won't do it this time. It will just destroy millions of people more. ~What Will YOU Celebrate? Dumpster Diving!~
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> And that is where the problem lies: the short sightedness of Wall St., which demands short term results. They have been leading us down the path of destruction for decades. If they cannot or refuse to learn from their mistakes then there is no choice but for the government to intervene (especially when it bails out businesses). If this means salary caps for execs and better laws to protect workers, then so be it. << <<Being a Right Wing Whacko I am a big proponent of Capitalism, and less Government. However, I agree with you fkurucz. Business has shown it has become irresponsible. The only way it would seem we can get back on track is with Government regulations, and oversite for the time being. I don't have much faith in the Government right now, so I hope the American people will attempt to closely monitor both Big Business, and Government.>> Letting the market do whatever it wants has been less successful than leaving a group of 12-year-old boys alone in a house filled with booze, drugs, porn and fireworks for a weekend and expecting everything would be fine because they go to church on Sundays. Total. Utter. Complete. Disaster. We need governmental oversight over anything that has led to this catastrophe. And, FWIW, my 'old' views were very much in line with redneck rightwing wackjob Pierce. But I can tell when things are a disaster. ~What Will YOU Celebrate? Selling your organs for food!~
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<And, FWIW, my 'old' views were very much in line with redneck rightwing wackjob Pierce.>> Same here. Which just shows what a sucker I was. The historical evidence was there: the Robber Barons, the Great Depression, etc.
Originally Posted By MPierce I think a large number of people are waking up to the fact you can no longer allow Wall Street, Big Business or Government to go unchecked. Hopefully folks will not soon forget the harsh ride they are being taken on when certain factions of our society are given free rein.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad The problem is Wallstreet, Big Businees and Government are working together. What chance did we have against that. They weren't going to regulate themselves and probably still won't when this is over. When the money is flowing and the people in charge are making huge salaries again, no one will be worrying about regulation until the next depression hits. If our government was really a government of the people, lobbyist (legal bribery by big business) wouldn't be allowed.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The problem is Wallstreet, Big Businees and Government are working together.>> The problem is Wall Street, Big Business and our government are largely corrupt and have been for many years now. And people just have opted to look away ... or they've been led that way ... when you're in fear of 'evildoers' or losing your job ... or just trying to get thru the day, you tend to not take part in bringing about change. Living in fear is anathema to the American Way, yet it has become our stock in trade. As shocking as this may be to some here, I was a very free-market, get government out of the way Spirit for most of my life. But the last 15 years (especially the last eight) have convinced me that we need lots of watchdogs and checks and controls ... you can't rely on a supposed 'free press' when newspapers are going out of business left and right and other forms of journalism are 95% entertainment. ~Trust No One!~
