Originally Posted By nbodyhome >> Have you noticed fewer Americans and more Europeans filling those parks? WDW is taking advantage of the weak dollar to keep things going there. << Yes, I see a lot of Brits here (some others, but epecially from the UK). And I'm not happy with the new rules for visitors going through customs, I think it's going to start keeping some potential visitors away - if it isn't already. I hate returning to the US myself, and I'm an American! But the UK visitors seem to come more at certain times of year. I have not noticed any sort of slowdown yet. I was told that October was going to be slow, it definitely was not. This was the busiest Food and Wine Festival that I can remember. It could turn at anytime, I've just not seen it yet.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Have you noticed fewer Americans and more Europeans filling those parks? WDW is taking advantage of the weak dollar to keep things going there. Otherwise, domestic attendance is down. At DLR, where foreigners account for a small percentage of visitors, Disney has already reported that attendance was down by about 5% in 2007 vs. 2006. >> Yes. And I've heard that a housing crunch may be coming to the UK like our bubble ... if that happens, WDW is in trouble. When you can come to WDW for 60-70% off, like these people are able to do now, it's a no-brainer. But if they start having difficulties at home, vacations will be the first thing cut.
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 <When I see signs all over WITH my own eyes that our country is in a recession, I don't need any talking heads on CNN and FOX to tell me ... and they wouldn't because they've basically become the Al-Jezeera of the Administration. That's why we don't see stories on what is happening to real Americans ... we get fluff on winning the war for freedom in Iraq, tigers gone wild and who has custody of the Spears brats. I'm sorry, Mr. X, because this time I will take a shot at you. I think you need to live here to actually understand what is going on. When everyone but the oil companies and some institututional investors on Wall Street are propping up the economy, you have a recession. When the price of both a gallon of gas and a gallon of milk are approaching $4, while salaries aren't rising and benefits are being cut and healthcare costs (for those lucky enough to be insured) are going up ... well, that spells recession. When people are living on credit ... and I'm not even talking about the irresponsible people, I'm talking about hard-working folks who don't want to lose their homes ... the writing is on the wall. When even in my upscale community, houses are being foreclosed on and the average age of a car is now 4-5 years old when people used to trade in every 12-24 months ... that tells me plenty. When companies just close and toss out tens of thousands of professional workers with no one to hire them ... I see recession. When jobs get sent to India, I see recession. When not one of the presidential candidates will mention the word, I KNOW we're in one (as we spend trillions on Iraq ... to benefit all those companies who really run America!)> Well Put. And i agree with almost everything youve said here. I get the feeling you are a democrat? But seriously, which resort was it?
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, you're entitled to your opinion but as I said the data doesn't support your thesis. It very well may change, but for now you are just spouting nonsense. (there, I took a shot at ya right back ) Anyway, firsthand "observations" aren't all that accurate...that's why you need to look at the big picture.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Which resort was this?>> CBR and PO-FQ were both completely shuttered, the latter twice. In addition, massive sections (buildings) at Riverside and the All Stars were taken out of inventory and not used. Also, Pop Century, which was supposed to open in Fall 2001 was mothballed until Dec. 2003 and the second phase, which was started (a complete foodcourt, retail and check-in building exists as well as the shells of two buildings of rooms), was canceled.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << But seriously, which resort was it? >> They essentially had Dixie Landings shut down throughout the post-9/11 downturn, along with extensive rehabs at Caribbean Beach that removed a huge number of rooms from the inventory. Plus, the old vacation villas were bulldozed in preparation for Saratoga Springs -- reducing inventory during a slowdown for a period before new rooms came online via DVC.
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 I think he has basis for his arguments. Honestly, most people live on credit these days. The depression of the 30's basically started when people who wanted stocks bougth it on-margin. Then people started to sell their stocks for fear of loss and boom. Depression. Most people by everything without money to back it up these days, and because they dont have the money to back it up, the credit card companies will go down the tubes. Also, the WDC was one of the companies that helped keep many companies from going out of business. Thats not going to happen this time around. Disney will be lucky to make it out alive.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome Unfortunately, a lot of people live over their means. It doesn't mean they are poor, it just means that they buy too much house, or they go on vacations they cannot afford on credit, etc. That is nothing new. We want what we want now - not to save for it later. I totally understand that, though I prefer to save for trips and such. There isn't a guarantee of even having tomorrow, so not everyone even thinks about retirement, or holding off trips to the next year. It used to be, a lot of people waited until retirement to go to Europe, or do things that we take for granted now. Items that were luxuries are now common (cable TV, cell phones etc.). We went with the to-go type phones and saved $600 each of the last two years. If we cut cable, that would be another $600 or more. Healthcare IS a mess. I don't know how that gets fixed. There are also expenses which have gone down over the years. Phone, internet, I'm sure some other things as well. Gas isn't cheap, but it's not as expensive as in some other countries. Airfare is still a great bargain, compared with 10 - 15 years ago, IMHO. Not everything is dire.
Originally Posted By hopemax I had someone keep an eye on the Cast portal for advisories. On Christmas MK was at Phase 2 from 10ish-2ish They were at Phase 2 on the 26th, but I don't know what times. I don't know for the 27th-30th. Yesterday, MK was at Phase 3 at 11:30ish. My parents were at the park because my cousin's sons were marching before the parade, and said it was packed. I just talked to my Dad this morning and a friend that works at MGM said they were closed for a time, and heard Epcot was too.
Originally Posted By mickeyboy43 THis still goes back to the American mindset though, and the change it has undergone within the past years. And yeah, this thread is moving fast.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Yes, I see a lot of Brits here (some others, but epecially from the UK). And I'm not happy with the new rules for visitors going through customs, I think it's going to start keeping some potential visitors away - if it isn't already. I hate returning to the US myself, and I'm an American! >> Well, you should think about that when you -- and everyone else -- go to vote. It's ridiculous what 'security' procedures have been put in place that don't keep us secure, but keep us controlled (see Germany in the 1940s). Many international visitors are just saying 'screw it' and staying away. Japan recently started requiring US residents to submit to having pictures and fingerprints taken when visiting because they're so incensed that we do likewise when they enter our country. Building walls around our country isn't going to protect us from any threats -- inside and out. All these things do is dig deeper at taking away the freedoms that make us Americans.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome People have been living on credit for years. And the parks are NOTHING like after 9/11, for the few years afterwards. Those were some very slow times. Disney is building, putting money into the parks and resorts, selling DVC (which gives people more of a sense of ownership and dedication - I'm not DVC, but it's a smart move on Disneys part), etc. On the other hand, they are not making me happy nickel and diming with their buffet pricing, and I'm sure I could name some other things too if I thought about it. It is natural that at some point, there will be a slowdown. And then it will eventually be better again.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Well Put. And i agree with almost everything youve said here. I get the feeling you are a democrat?>> No. I'm a free thinker. I think the two parties we have exist to keep existing if that makes sense. I have actually considered myself to be a member of both parties at various times of my life. But no more. I have a brain. I can think. I am not blind to what's going on (most Americans on both sides of the spectrum are blind to anything that doesn't affect them personally). I actually have names for both parties. I'd love to share them here. But the post would disappear almost instantaneously.
Originally Posted By nbodyhome >> Building walls around our country isn't going to protect us from any threats -- inside and out. All these things do is dig deeper at taking away the freedoms that make us Americans. >> I agree with that. When I travel to the UK or even to France, I feel more welcome arriving there than I do coming back to the US. I really dislike the treatment that I've had upon return in the past couple of years. And I'm not foreign. I don't expect our visitors to be treated poorly either. They are coming to visit, to spend money, and don't deserve that. I will never go through Philly again internationally or otherwise. Just an awful-bad experience last year. When I travel elsewhere, I feel like I get a better check-over, quicker and less invasive. Coming here, it's a bunch of people who bark orders. Welcome to America!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Unfortunately, a lot of people live over their means. It doesn't mean they are poor, it just means that they buy too much house, or they go on vacations they cannot afford on credit, etc. That is nothing new. We want what we want now - not to save for it later. I totally understand that, though I prefer to save for trips and such. There isn't a guarantee of even having tomorrow, so not everyone even thinks about retirement, or holding off trips to the next year. >> That's very true. And I think many people look and see how much wealth there is in this country -- and how unevenly distributed it is -- and think 'I can work for the next 15 years and not be able to afford a trip to Europe.' Some people would just say, you don't go. But we don't get a second chance at life, and it is increasing cheap in this country. That pushes many to say 'Here's my Visa.' Irresponsible? I'm really not sure ... <<Healthcare IS a mess. I don't know how that gets fixed.>> It's quite simple. Universal healthcare. Not a business where values are placed on human life in what we like to say is the most compassionate nation on earth (I shouldn't say we, because I'd never say that after witnessing the healthcare disaster up close.) I know many Americans have been brainwashed to feel socialized medicine is a bad thing. But almost anything is better than what we have now. I have CNN on in the background and John McCain just said somewhere that we 'have the best healthcare system in the world' ... I was dumbfounded that ANY presidential candidate would make such an ignorant statement, let alone someone I did have some respect for. That's gone. <<There are also expenses which have gone down over the years. Phone, internet, I'm sure some other things as well. Gas isn't cheap, but it's not as expensive as in some other countries. >> Yeah. That is true. But in Venezuela, gas is 12 cents a gallon. In 2001, I remember leaving DL and pulling into the Shell across from TDA, and paying 89 cents for regular unleaded. I just paid $3.05 yesterday and that is a 'bargain' in SoFla. I just have huge issues when ExxonMobil makes a $10 BILLION PROFIT IN A QUARTER, yet they've tripled what gas costs in six years, which affects the economy in so many ways. <<Airfare is still a great bargain, compared with 10 - 15 years ago, IMHO.>> It is. But at what cost? Every major legacy carrier (except AMerican, which barely avoided it) has filed for bankruptcy at least once if not multiple times since then. And the service is a joke because they've eliminated simple needed things like food and pillows on most airlines. And they've cut so many jobs and pay for their employees. Not to mention we largely fly on dirty skybuses now with very old technology, while foreign carriers buy brand new planes with all of the latest comforts. Maybe paying $200 to fly coast to coast really isn't good for us in the long run. Maybe we should be paying $400 ... or $600. <<Not everything is dire. >> True ... just most things ;-)
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It very well may change, but for now you are just spouting nonsense. (there, I took a shot at ya right back )>> Feel free. I'll still respect you in the morning. And I'll be just fine, even though I-57 won't come running out to protect me. <<Anyway, firsthand "observations" aren't all that accurate...that's why you need to look at the big picture.>> That's what I'm doing. And I realize the online forum isn't the best way to have a discussion (even on Disney, let alone the economy), but I think if I had you in person over drinks for a few hours, you might get exactly where I'm coming from and why I KNOW I am right!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<On Christmas MK was at Phase 2 from 10ish-2ish They were at Phase 2 on the 26th, but I don't know what times. I don't know for the 27th-30th. Yesterday, MK was at Phase 3 at 11:30ish. My parents were at the park because my cousin's sons were marching before the parade, and said it was packed. I just talked to my Dad this morning and a friend that works at MGM said they were closed for a time, and heard Epcot was too.>> Thanks, hopemax. I understand what you mean, but I think others might not and I don't have the energy to explain when I'm busy ripping our economy!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I agree with that. When I travel to the UK or even to France, I feel more welcome arriving there than I do coming back to the US. I really dislike the treatment that I've had upon return in the past couple of years. And I'm not foreign. I don't expect our visitors to be treated poorly either. They are coming to visit, to spend money, and don't deserve that. I will never go through Philly again internationally or otherwise. Just an awful-bad experience last year. When I travel elsewhere, I feel like I get a better check-over, quicker and less invasive. Coming here, it's a bunch of people who bark orders. Welcome to America!>> I couldn't have said that better myself. (except for the Philly part as I've heard about the terrible airport and have avoided it!) ANyway, I should't 'fear' going through customs in my HOME country when returning when I feel welcome in every nation I've traveled through in Europe (many of which HATE our leadership, I might add!)
Originally Posted By Mr X I don't think you're right, to the extent that my money is completely where my mouth is right there in the stock market...if you're right, I lose. BUT, I do understand where you're coming from. Your points are all correct in as far as they go, but when I say big picture I really am talking about simple data analysis. According to the facts, you are wrong (at this time). It's one thing to say we might be heading for a recession (I'd disagree, short to mid-term anyway), but to say we're already IN one, never mind a BIG one, is simple nonsense in the sense that the data does nothing to support your claims. And obviously investors by and large don't agree with you either, with the markets still pushing forwards and near enough to all time highs...now THAT'S the "experts" that will really tell you what is going on. And they, too, have confirmed a complete housing recession...just look at the stock price for almost any lender, homebuilder, or investment firm right now.
