Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/10/museum.shooting/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/...dex.html</a> These people are really starting to piss me off. This nut has a website talking about his hatred of blacks and Jews. What a winner. It's infuriating.
Originally Posted By Mr X Domestic terrorists, perhaps? We've had three incidents now in less than 2 weeks.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Which people?<< Crazy people, almost always right-wingers, who are so poisoned by rhetoric that they finally resort to killing innocent people. Shepherd Smith talked about it on Fox News today with some of the emails they get: <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/10/shepard-smith-says-his-em_n_214013.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...013.html</a> He says they're getting scarier and scarier, and that these people are off the deep end. They're already mentally unstable, then they're egged on.
Originally Posted By Mr X Well then, there's a hell of a lot of instable people out there. Heck, go to ANY news site or video site that has a comments section and view or read ANYTHING about gays, abortion, Obama, terrorists, Islam, Christianity etc..., I guarantee you'll read things that make you nauseous (I'm so confident of this, there's no need to provide any links..although I could find about a thousand with a casual search).
Originally Posted By DAR <<We've had three incidents now in less than 2 weeks.>> Would one of those be the shooting of Private William Long? That story didn't get much play.
Originally Posted By JohnS1 It's interesting after seeing that someone here mentioned right-wingers, to see that polling seems to indicate that the Jewish state, and Jews in general, have more support from people who would label themselves conservative than from people who consider themselves liberal. There is much more support for the Palestinian cause among democrats than among republicans, for example. But, yes, this event reflects a growing march toward intolerance toward Jews worldwide. It's almost as if World War II and Hitler and the Holocaust never happened when you see what's happening in many European countries, and incidents such as the one here in the US.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But, yes, this event reflects a growing march toward intolerance toward Jews worldwide. It's almost as if World War II and Hitler and the Holocaust never happened when you see what's happening in many European countries, and incidents such as the one here in the US.<< This is wildly inaccurate. Denunciation of Jewish treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank - which is appalling - is a far cry from "intolerance toward Jews." This is not the either/or situation conservatives want to portray it as. One can support a Jewish state and a Palestinian state as the best way to a lasting peace, and still be a strong supporter of Israel.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Would one of those be the shooting of Private William Long? That story didn't get much play.<< You're right. It must be that liberal media. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/us/05recruit.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06...uit.html</a> <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31173179/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31173179/</a> <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/04/obama.arkansas.shooting/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/...hooting/</a> Oh, wait. It looks like it was covered by MSNBC, CNN, and the New York Times. A quick Google News search reveals several hundred hits, including the AP. But let's not have the facts get in the way of good old fashioned conservative picked-on paranoia. And what did Long's shooting have in common with these other shootings? The guy who did it was a religious nut too. What a giant shock. Well at least there was that Atheist guy who went into the Christian church in Tennessee and shot up the place. Oh wait, that never happened now, did it. My mistake.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The Dr. Tiller shooting has received more play overall.<< DAR, I have no idea why you need to play the "my shooting's worse than your shooting" card. Both were appalling and both were religiously motivated. It's natural (though no less tragic) that Tiller's shooting would generate more attention. He was threatened and even injured before by anti-abortion extremists. His clinic was one of three or four in the entire country that performed late term abortions, so he was already well-known. He specifically was targeted, whereas Private Long was in the wrong place at the wrong time. But it was completely inaccurate for you to say "it hasn't gotten much play." When I showed that it had been covered by all major news outlets, you inexplicably reverted to, "Well, Tiller's death got more play." Who the hell cares? The larger point remains that we've seen an increase in these single shooter incidents in the last few months. They all seem perpetrated by a combination of religious and political motivation. I'm stunned we're even debating it or people are taking issue with that characterization. Of course, when Homeland Security released a report a few months ago warning about an increase in violence from right-wing extremists, conservatives denounced the report as politically motivated. It also warned specifically about violence against Jews. Again, conservatives laughed it off. And now they're apparently more interested in spinning this latest one. And who can blame them? Their increasingly hysterical rhetoric may very well have pushed some of these people over the edge.
Originally Posted By DAR Dr. Tiller didn't deserve to get killed but I just consider Private Long to have better standing.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Dr. Tiller didn't deserve to get killed but I just consider Private Long to have better standing.<< Why? Because he was in the military? So if Dr. Tiller were in the military, would you have more regard for him and his widowed wife and fatherless children? >>Tiller studied at the University of Kansas School of Medicine from 1963 to 1967. Shortly thereafter, he held a medical internship with United States Navy, and served as flight surgeon in Oakland, California, in 1969 and 1970.<< <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tiller" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...e_Tiller</a>
Originally Posted By DAR He did some good back then, it's too bad he didn't carry it on. And yes I have high respect for our military.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>He did some good back then, it's too bad he didn't carry it on. And yes I have high respect for our military.<< Yes. Saving the lives of women who might be in danger from a pregnancy gone wrong is really appalling work. I know conservatives love to portray late-term abortions as the result of lazy women who decide at the last minute they don't want a kid, but that's just entry 2,437 in the journal of Conservative Nonsense and Propaganda. I know that thinking God's miracle of "intelligent design" could go wrong is a sin, but it's just true. It isn't all that intelligent and fetuses don't always develop the way they're supposed to. George Tiller did carry on good work.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>And yes I have high respect for our military.<< On another note, it's absurd to give a pass to such a large group of people based on their profession. It's like saying, "I have high respect for doctors." Of course, there are good doctors and bad doctors, just as there are good soldiers and bad soldiers. I appreciate the sacrifices these people make too. No doubt most of them are honorable people who do an honorable job. But DAR hears "military" and suddenly someone's infallible. A friend of mine just divorced her abusive husband. He was an Iraq war veteran. Perhaps that makes his abuse less horrible. The army has an extremely high rate of rape and abuse of women. Perhaps it's just the "pressures of the job" and it's excusable. Private Long's death was tragic. I feel terrible for his family. But the notion that he's a more important person or somehow more deserving of our sympathy than another victim because he was in the military is silly.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Crazy people, almost always right-wingers, who are so poisoned by rhetoric that they finally resort to killing innocent people.> Too bad the crazy guy at the Holocaust museum was a left-winger, probably poisoned by the left-wing rhetoric that was spewed out for almost eight years.
Originally Posted By DAR <<But DAR hears "military" and suddenly someone's infallible.>> I never said all in the military were infalliable. Just like any profession there's bound to be some bad apples. But overall those are good people. <<A friend of mine just divorced her abusive husband. He was an Iraq war veteran. Perhaps that makes his abuse less horrible. The army has an extremely high rate of rape and abuse of women. Perhaps it's just the "pressures of the job" and it's excusable.>> That's certainly not excusable. But neither is killing of an innocent baby. And not if the mother is in grave danger or it was a rape or incest case. I am sympathetic to that. But I never understood just getting rid of a baby because you don't want it. There are plenty of couples who can't have children of their own that would give a child a loving home. And let's not forget that Pro-choice can also include actually keeping the baby.
