Originally Posted By vbdad55 September 6, 2006, 11:36 am Intel: Street Likes Job Cuts, But Wanted More; Will They Sell Flash Unit? John A. Challenger, CEO of Challenger, Gray & Christmas: "There are some signs that the housing slowdown is taking a toll on jobs. ... Job-cutting in real estate this year is nearly double last year. However, we have not as yet seen a major uptick in job cuts in the sectors we might expect during a significant slowdown Newsvine - Bayer 2Q Net Profit Up; Job Cuts Planned I know this will be only more doom and gloom to some, but for others it is only to make them more aware. Here are just 2006 announcements/ implementation, each person can be their own judge GM 50,000 over 3 -4 years Ford 30,000 over next 5 yeears close 13 plants - cut production by 21% Ford 4,000 sept 06 additioanl white collar cuts announced HP 15,000 Kodak 10,500 Kimberly-12,000 Clark IBM 10,000-13,000 announced late 05 Intel 10,500 sept 06 - also leading offshorer Maytag 4,500 with Whirlpool Delphi 24,000 Jan 06 - btw offered 'new' workers $9/HR Sun Micro 5,500 Oracle 2,000 feb 06 Honeywell 2,200 april 06 Nrtel 1,100 june 06 Bayer 1,500 while announcing rise in profits Hanes 2,000 and moving sewing ops to Caribbean announced Almost 220,000 positions , many just in the last 90 days -- and the only cuts that make the news are the very large ones. Yet the economy is sold as 'sizzling' And some choose to tell us htere are jobs everywhere. And every one of these jobs have 'residual' job losses for companies that supply work and parts with them. I'll let everyone form their own opinion if the economy is some trouble or not. Is it the end of the world, certainly not, but someone needs to start paying attention as the job base erodes. How can we be more compoetitve with the rest of the world while keeping our own workers gainfully employed ? At what point are jobs losses in high tech, auto and now housing markets, being replaced by low paying services jobs going to wreck havoc with purchasing power and standard of living ? And mostly, why is this not a talkng point for either political party ? I don't care which side of the political fence you are on, and lets not make this a Dem vs GOP issue, as it truly is not. Do you at least acknowledge it should be a talking point, and what if anything can be done? <a href="http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14783341/" target="_blank">http://msnbc.msn.com/id/147833 41/</a> <a href="http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6368854&partner=enews" target="_blank">http://www.edn.com/index.asp?l ayout=article&articleid=CA6368854&partner=enews</a> <a href="http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/living/home/15419751.htm" target="_blank">http://www.thestate.com/mld/th estate/living/home/15419751.htm</a> <a href="http://news.com.com/Intel+lowers+the+boom+on+marketing" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/Intel+lowe rs+the+boom+on+marketing</a>,+IT+departments/2100-1014_3-6112412.html <a href="http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002950678" target="_blank">http://www.editorandpublisher. com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002950678</a> <a href="http://news.com.com/IBM+Job+cuts+mean+savings+of+1+billion+in+2006/2100-1011_3-5696364.html" target="_blank">http://news.com.com/IBM+Job+cu ts+mean+savings+of+1+billion+in+2006/2100-1011_3-5696364.html</a> <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5397277" target="_blank">http://www.npr.org/templates/s tory/story.php?storyId=5397277</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I looked up Naperville, IL (I believe vbdad's said that's where he lives) at 'Sperling's Best Places' and saw some rather startling statistics. From the median income and median home price figures you can see that Naperville is a VERY upscale suburb. I would have to guess that not too many 'losers' live there. But is everything rosy in Naperville? I think not. Sperling's shows they have an unemployment rate of 5.4% and recent job growth of -0.37%. Not exactly what I would call a sizzling economy. Yes, the job situation in America absolutely needs to be addressed by both political parties. Source: <a href="http://www.bestplaces.net/city/profile.aspx?city=Naperville_IL" target="_blank">http://www.bestplaces.net/city /profile.aspx?city=Naperville_IL</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Hanes 2,000 and moving sewing ops to Caribbean announced<< My brother works at Hanes. Manufacturing went offshore a few years ago, and they have been pushing the office jobs offshore as well, to Costa Rica in particular, for the past few years. Over half the staff in my brother's department (procurement) has been let go these past few years. And there's more to come. My brother knows that its inevitable that will someday be let go (in fact he is surprised it hasn't happened already). He has looked for work elsewhere (he lives in Winston-Salem, NC) but its the familiar story, everybody is laying off and few are hiring (and they pay much less than he gets today). His wife is finishing her degree and working on her teaching credential and he is also thinking of the credential. He figures that with 2 teachers salaries they can save the house and make it to retirement.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>But is everything rosy in Naperville? I think not. Sperling's shows they have an unemployment rate of 5.4% and recent job growth of -0.37%. Not exactly what I would call a sizzling economy.<< Fort Collins CO is also one Money Mag's best places to live. The city is constantly having to cut the budget as sales tax revenues repeatedly fail to match the estimates. Oh, and the chief state economist has predicted a recession in Colorado next year (did the previous one ever really end?).
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Do you at least acknowledge it should be a talking point<< Yes >>and what if anything can be done?<< Penalize companies that offshore jobs Give tax credits for creating new jobs Demand fair trade. If a country protects its markets from our exports, then do the same to them. Raise public awareness of the long term impact of trade deficits. Define an energy policy that reduces foregn dependence (and which creates jobs here). In the end, it will be difficult. Modern technology has made labor arbitrage a cinch. No matter how many penalties or incentives are in place, how does a $7000 per month white collar worker in the US compete with a $700 per month white collar worker in the 3rd world?
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>In the end, it will be difficult. Modern technology has made labor arbitrage a cinch. No matter how many penalties or incentives are in place, how does a $7000 per month white collar worker in the US compete with a $700 per month white collar worker in the 3rd world?<< Simple, you eliminate all tax incentives and tax breaks for companies that offshore American jobs and you penalize them something like $10,000 per job per month.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But is everything rosy in Naperville? I think not. Sperling's shows they have an unemployment rate of 5.4% and recent job growth of -0.37%. Not exactly what I would call a sizzling economy. < that number represents mainly management level people whose jobs have been outsourced/downsized and cannot find those jobs we hear are so prevalent out there.. We are located near the Illinois high tech corridor, and major employers are Tellabs / Nalco Chemical / BP Research Center / Fermi Labs and the like along with McDonalds Corp HQ / UAL / etc. Here are stats from Money Magazine best pplaces to live: ( in top 3 every year since 2002) <a href="http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL1751622.html" target="_blank">http://money.cnn.com/magazines /moneymag/bplive/2006/snapshots/PL1751622.html</a> Also from our 'broken public school system, as some would have you believe that voucher syystems are necessary - or home schooling. The true enemy of public schools are anti school tax organizations. Average SAT score - 1204 Average ACT score - 25.2 Graduation rate over 98.8% 70% + high school teachers masters degrees + 90% + exceed state achievement numbers across all subjects yet all done while spending less per child than the state average District 203 eighth graders ranked first in the world in science and sixth in math among the 38 nations and consortiums that participated in the 1999 Third International Math and Science Study (TIMSS Naperville Public Libraries has been ranked #1 in its population category for the five years the HAPLR Index (Hennen’s American Public Library Rankings) has been in place Lowest crime rate for a city of over 100,000 in the U.S. Closer to Mayberry than 'loserville' - yet the economy is being felt here also. The difference is people are actually aware and acknowledging the issue and bi-partisan groups work with local companies to address employment. We reently had Officemax more their corporate HQ here also, working with tax incentives in exchange for local jobs. State of the city address ( video ) - only need to watch a few minutes after mayor starts as he is a former plice officer ( actually officer friendly) - and NOT a typical politician and I believe it is a clue as to why things work. <a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2281786450497723537" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/videop lay?docid=-2281786450497723537</a>
Originally Posted By Lisann22 <<<"There are some signs that the housing slowdown is taking a toll on jobs">>> I'm the Director of one of two manufacturing plants for a major tool company that caters to the interior drywall finishing business. In the past month, I've spent more time in meeting discussing budget costs, what to do differently in 2007 and how to survive the 4th quarter of 2006. The housing industry has dried up. We are not hitting our targets and probably won't make EBIDTA without some serious cost controls and slashes. It will still be a record year for us but our owners are NOT satisfied and we are paying the price for it with cuts in manpower, pay increases, etc. It's going to be a stressful 4th quarter here.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I here you guys. Similarly here in the UK, my local government clients are having to tighten their belts and it is severly hurting some of the smaller players in our market space. The economy (global) is not healthy. Cost of living is increasing/employment is decreasing. This does not bow well at all. It is sad that the focus on the bottom line and maximisation of ROI is the focus, but it benefits the few. These are important items (infact no business could survive without being the key focus), but ethos and quality used to be key drivers in business too. The commodities approach is hitting, and hitting hard. And it is actually impacting more than people expect.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I hear even - god, I need to quite working and LPing at the same time!
Originally Posted By alexbook >>In the end, it will be difficult. Modern technology has made labor arbitrage a cinch. No matter how many penalties or incentives are in place, how does a $7000 per month white collar worker in the US compete with a $700 per month white collar worker in the 3rd world?<< You don't. This situation will continue until the Third World's standard of living approaches ours or ours approaches theirs. I'd prefer the former. ("A rising tide lifts all boats.")
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It will still be a record year for us but our owners are NOT satisfied and we are paying the price for it with cuts in manpower, pay increases, etc.<< And yet they expect the poor consumer to keep on spending to boost the economy.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>You don't. This situation will continue until the Third World's standard of living approaches ours or ours approaches theirs. I'd prefer the former. ("A rising tide lifts all boats."<< Considering that they outnumber us by an order of magnitude, its more likely that our pay and standard of living will decrease more than theirs will rise, until we reach equilibrium. Now we know why globalists hammer 3rd world countries to crank out more college grads than they could ever possibly employ.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Simple, you eliminate all tax incentives and tax breaks for companies that offshore American jobs and you penalize them something like $10,000 per job per month.<< Still a bargain. You replace an 80K per year worker with a 10K worker. You have 70K leftover to pay fines. Plus I'll bet that the WTO would challenge the fines in a flash (and win). Its important to remember that our corporate leaders do not consider themselves nor the corporatrions they run as "American". If they have an American passport its a mere formality.
Originally Posted By jonvn Companies are eyeing a move to abandon india as a place to do business. The employees there are starting cost about as much as they do here, and they can't keep people in a company, as they constantly jump ship for the next company who will pay them more. It's starting to cost them more to do business in India, and cost cutting via offshoring of these high tech jobs are evaporating. Good thing, too. In a few years, maybe this offshoring fad will be abandoned.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Still a bargain. You replace an 80K per year worker with a 10K worker. You have 70K leftover to pay fines." Then you raise the fines until it is no longer economically feasible to do such a thing.
Originally Posted By alexbook >>Then you raise the fines until it is no longer economically feasible to do such a thing.<< And then the company re-incoporates itself in Liechtenstein or wherever.
Originally Posted By jonvn Doesn't matter. You can write the laws to affect any corporation that reincorporates into another country. Lots of companies have already reincorporated into places like Bermuda because of tax reasons. If a company does that, they can and should be hit with a wallop of taxes. We tax and exempt from taxes all sorts of things that are considered beneficial to the country. Charitable donations, for example, as a deduction. It's time the government did something to help the people of this country. Note that these aren't tariffs. It's not about the goods, it's about the corporations who have absolutely no morality to them at all.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>It's starting to cost them more to do business in India, and cost cutting via offshoring of these high tech jobs are evaporating.<< They'll just move on to next impoverished hell hole.
