Originally Posted By Donny That if you charge to much for health care the government is going to step in and help pay for it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Stop making medicine a commodity and prices will reduce. Public health will improve. That fast US medicine socialises, the better.
Originally Posted By ecdc Am I the only one who finds the phrase "hospital companies" to be so backwards? The idea that hospitals are companies, profiting off of sick people, is the whole problem. Some things shouldn't be for profit.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ^^It always amazes me the contempt Evangs and Fundies have for the poor.
Originally Posted By Labuda "Am I the only one who finds the phrase "hospital companies" to be so backwards? The idea that hospitals are companies, profiting off of sick people, is the whole problem. Some things shouldn't be for profit." See, this is one thing I LOVE about the customer account I work on. They're non-profit. And one hospital in our network here in Austin is one of the good ones that will treat anyone, regardless of ability to pay or not.
Originally Posted By ecdc And remember the good old days when being a war profiteer was seen as a bad thing? Now it's as American as mom and apple pie.
Originally Posted By Donny All I am trying to say is should'nt one of the goals be to bring down hospital and medicine costs ????
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Absolutely. Especially when meds that we buy here in the UK (and I am talking about real cost to tax payers) are 30% the cost the US pay.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones They keep saying Obama is a socialist so I ask, where is the damn socialism? I'd be happy if we got more socialist about health care.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Agreed. He is not a socialist. He is a democrat, which is still actually right wing on the international political spectrum. But there are millions of people who have been hypnotised into believing social medicine is a bad thing.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>All I am trying to say is should'nt one of the goals be to bring down hospital and medicine costs ????<< Oh sure. And no one has disagreed with you. Everyone wants lower prices. And I wasn't taking issue with your use of "hospital companies" -- they ARE companies. A lot of them are traded on the New York Stock Exchange. The debate is how best to lower costs and cover everyone. Do we trust these same companies that have raised prices while posting record profits, cut sick people off when they tried to get treatment, and retroactively billed people for services? I sure don't trust these vampires. Is government the perfect solution? Of course not, but it's quite literally the only entity we have that's powerful enough to stop these abuses and try and get everyone covered. So naturally we as citizens recognized the problem and came together united to help solve it. Oh wait, we didn't. Instead people called the President Hitler and spat on members of Congress, because they had the audacity to say that everyone deserves to get treatment when they're sick in America.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Agreed. He is not a socialist. He is a democrat, which is still actually right wing on the international political spectrum. But there are millions of people who have been hypnotised into believing social medicine is a bad thing.<< I have a neighbor who is a hard core, right wing Protestant Fundy. When they passed the watered down heathcare reform bill he flew an old Soviet flag from his porch (he also did that when Obama was elected). These people have no idea of what a Communist or a Socialist is.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>They keep saying Obama is a socialist so I ask, where is the damn socialism?<< Indeed! Where are the free Universities? The mandatory 6 weeks of paid time off? The protections against layoffs just to boost profits? Where is the single payor heathcare system? etc. The old contract in the US was that we didn't have these benefits in exchange for a vibrant job market that paid better than in other countries. Now that job market is quickly disappearing and will probably never come back. So now we have the worst of both worlds.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Absolutely. Especially when meds that we buy here in the UK (and I am talking about real cost to tax payers) are 30% the cost the US pay.<< But, but, but the "invisible hand" of the "free market" is supposed to keep prices down in the USA. Didn't get the memo? We have "the best healthcare system in the world*" *only if you have money or good insurance.
Originally Posted By Labuda "The mandatory 6 weeks of paid time off?" Technically, I get about 8 weeks of paid time off each year. 4 weeks vaca, 2 weeks personal time, and 2 weeks + 1 day holidays.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I was referring to the 6 weeks or more of vacation time that most Euros get every year. IIRC there are no federal laws mandating paid time off, either vacation, "personal time" or paid holidays. I know plenty of folks who get bupkus. If it's a "holiday" and the office is closed they don't get paid for that day. And my previous megacorp employer reduced our Paid Time Off by one week a few years ago. Just like that, no explanation, just an email informing us of our "changed" benefit.
