Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "This info was point out YEARS ago after the major Cedar Fire, but hardly any actions were taken in the last few years. We need to take action NOW to try and prevent tragedies in the near future." And one-sided finger pointing and blaming, all in the name of a personal agenda, while the fires are still burning, makes one want to puke.
Originally Posted By jonvn It really is kind of unbelievable. It was a fire. An act of nature (well, arson perhaps enhanced act of nature). NOTHING was going to stop this fire once it got going. Finger pointing is stupid. What should be done is to congratulate how well the evacuations went, and how well everything seemed to be handled. This means how both the governor and the president actually did well this time. Fema seems to be in a lot better shape than it was, and Bush made a show of actually caring (although I personally don't see what difference it really makes...but many seem to think it helps). So, there. Bush did something well. The feds and state and locals all did a pretty darned good job in all this, and I think people who are trying to weedle some sort of political gain out of this, like Boxer, are really disgusting.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The feds and state and locals all did a pretty darned good job in all this>> I don't know. Sounds like a little bit of the same old same old to me... <<Updated: 5:37 p.m. CT Oct 25, 2007 LOS ANGELES - As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy.>> Remind anyone of a bunch of school busses??
Originally Posted By Mr X The governor didn't seem to think so. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/32p3qe" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/32p3qe</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn The wind was blowing at 70mph. That's the government rules that did not allow them to fly. There was also so much smoke in the air after the winds died down, that it was unsafe to fly due to lack of visibility.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The wind was blowing at 70mph. That's the government rules that did not allow them to fly. There was also so much smoke in the air after the winds died down, that it was unsafe to fly due to lack of visibility.>> Just as there were probably many reasons the school busses just sat there in New Orleans. One likely reason being that all of the school bus drivers had been ordered to evacuate. But while we will give a pass to Arnold and the California victims because they are Republican and White and affluent; it was pretty easy to dump on Katrina victims because they were Democrat, Black and Poor.
Originally Posted By jonvn I have no idea about why the school busses sat there. It seems they could easily have been driven without the need of school bus drivers. Lots of people can drive busses, or be gotten to drive a bus. I do know that the aircraft, if flown, would have crashed and killed people and started more fires. To suggest that they should have in any way flown is absolutely crazy.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<To suggest that they should have in any way flown is absolutely crazy.>> I'm not suggesting they should have flown. I'm suggesting that it doesn't make much sense to criticize when you don't know all the facts. New Orleans got raped by media that knew very little in the way of factual information.
Originally Posted By jonvn Did you catch that video that Mr. X put up with the governor totally taking down the reporter who was trying to stir up trouble over the aircraft? You have to watch it. He just totally blew her away. Great moment for him.
Originally Posted By Ursula Maybe I am too close to the subject, but what is wrong with the term "illegal alien?" An alien is a foreign being. There are signs at the borders referring to "aliens." If they are here without proper legal documentation, they are illegal. And yeah, try to not have an opinion like mine when your own education suffered because half of your class couldn't speak English (and the teacher hd to spend half a year teaching English your entire fourth grade. ) I am the FIRST one to point out that I would stand behind someone here legally and I would also applaud their ability to speak more than one language. It's hard to learn more than one as an adult, I've tried. But our system just can't carry and support MORE people at the current rate. We are overpopulated as it is...is anyone thinking of overpopulation and the amount of homes lost in the current firestorm? WHO PUT THIS SOAPBOX under me?
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Gee, the term "Alien " is the correct term, based on US law... <a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/8/chapters/12/subchapters/i/sections/section_1101.html" target="_blank">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/ casecode/uscodes/8/chapters/12/subchapters/i/sections/section_1101.html</a> >>The term "alien" means any person not a citizen or national of the United States.<< <a href="http://www.vdare.com/mann/faq.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vdare.com/mann/faq. htm</a> >>What's the difference between legal and illegal aliens? S hort answer: a piece of paper. Illegal aliens are foreign nationals who have entered the U.S. without any legal status. The most common ways are by either crossing a land or sea border without being inspected by an immigration officer, or simply by violating the terms of a legal entry document. Legal aliens are entitled to enter and remain in the U.S. as long as they maintain the terms of their status. Legal aliens who have entered the U.S. with various types of non-immigrant visas can become illegal by not obeying the terms of that visa. <<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.cairco.org/info/terms.html" target="_blank">http://www.cairco.org/info/ter ms.html</a> >>"Undocumented worker" versus "illegal alien" The terms "undocumented worker", "undocumented immigrant", and "undocumented alien" are often used to describe those who have broken the law of our land to enter and work in our country illegally. These are all misleading terms, deliberately used to "soften" the issue. The term "undocumented" implies that foreign nationals have the unconditional right to violate America's borders and immigration laws. An "immigrant" is an invited guest - a person who comes to a country where they are not a citizen in order to settle there. The term "immigrant" implies permanent, legal, residency. (Although because of amnesties and status adjustments, about 25% of currently legal immigrants first came here illegally). The accurate description of a foreign national illegally residing in America is illegal alien. An illegal alien is a criminal subject to as much as six months in jail for first offense and subject to federal felony charges for subsequent entries after deportation. <<
Originally Posted By Mr X Yup, but the PC police prefer the softer, gentler term "undocumented immigrants". Which to me is utterly stupid. Call em admined admins for all I care. And by the way, I happen to be a LEGAL permanant resident alien of the country in which I reside, and I had to pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time and jump through a lot of hoops to achieve that goal...so illegals do tick me off bigtime because they tend to make the laws and proceedures a much bigger pain for the rest of us going about our law abiding lives...thus the reason why when I re-enter Japan from now on I've got to go through the hassle of being treated like a criminal by being photographed and fingerprinted...ARGH!
Originally Posted By Mr X Good points DB. Also, the term "undocumented" carries with it sort of an "oh, yeah, a mistake has been made" kind of vibe. If I were robbed and my passport and alien registration card were taken, I would be an "undocumented alien" in Japan, without having done anything wrong. And I sort of resent being lumped in with the scumbag criminals. "illegal" means just that, someone who willfully broke the law. It's a completely fitting description.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7284105" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/bre akingnews/ci_7284105</a> >>At the stadium, volunteer Karen Huff said she and other volunteers alerted police earlier this week when they spotted a half-dozen people loading two pickup trucks with relief items. Police confronted the thieves and recovered the goods. "Thousands of dollars worth of stuff was being taken from these victims," Huff said. "It's the worst type of crime you can commit, when you take advantage of a situation like this." The Border Patrol detained eight people Wednesday who were suspected of stealing cots, blankets and dry goods, said San Diego police Capt. Bob Kanaski. Police officers questioned 15 people who were suspected of filling up two trucks and a sedan with stolen property and brought in the Border Patrol after surmising that some were illegal immigrants. The other seven were released. << <a href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20071024-1931-bn24fires1.html" target="_blank">http://www.signonsandiego.com/ news/metro/20071024-1931-bn24fires1.html</a> >>Six illegal immigrants who were suspected of stealing relief supplies from Qualcomm were arrested by Border Patrol agents. A woman told San Diego Police she saw the group load up two pickup trucks and a car with cots and other supplies, leave and then return, said police Sgt. Jesse Cesena. When officers stopped them, a member of the group said they were being paid to take things of value from the stadium. “They were stealing a lot of stuff,†Cesena said. “We took the stuff back and we escorted them out. They were stealing from the people in need.†Because some members of the group spoke Spanish, officers called Border Patrol agents who were at the stadium for relief efforts. They determined the people were in the country illegally and arrested them. <<
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Well, I personnally never had a problem with the wording of illegal aliens and never mentioned it, its just the idea of bashing them to bash is what bothers me more and NOT saying that's happening here, but there it is. And yeah, I'm in the same boat as Mr. X, it sucks when you live somewhere outside the country you were born in, do everything right, law abiding citizen, pay your taxes and etc and EVEERYTIME you go in and out of customs, they look at you like you are trying to smuggle drugs in the country and I have to say Japan IS one of the worst offenders. I can't tell you how many times I get hasseled EVERYTIME I go there. I was just there in August and once again, I went through the 'random' custom sweep. Everyone is very nice and all that and their tone seems to change when they look in my passport and see I was a former resident, but it sucks just the same. So, I want to make clear I'm NOT defending illegal aliens, far from it, I been on both sides of it myself, being from a place that had the immigration issue and then being an 'immigrant' myself in another place.
Originally Posted By Mr X You don't have to put 'immigrant' in quotes, bro. You ARE one. Funny thing about profiling, huh. I have NEVER (knock on wood) dealt with the slightest bit of hassle coming in or out of Japan, and we're looking now at 10 or so round trips. Never a moment's problem at immigration (both foreigner and "local"), never a second glance at customs. Could it possibly be because I'm white and you're black? I sure freakin HOPE not...but hearing your story of constant trouble coupled with my lack of stress...you really gotta wonder. On the other hand, the tale of two dudes passing through customs is hardly a scientific survey...but STILL, you gotta wonder.
Originally Posted By Mr X **its just the idea of bashing them to bash is what bothers me more** What's wrong with "bashing" criminals? ESPECIALLY, as Peeaanuut pointed out, criminals who are commiting MORE CRIMES. Talk about "PC out of control", that's this right here! Coupled with the fact that I am apparently now a homophobe (guess my gay friends might be surprised) who likes to joke about pedophiles (no, I don't)...this is just one more example of PC out of control and into the realm of COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY STUPID. imho.
Originally Posted By Mr X Yup, I'm guilty of all that (except I don't know what a pedophileaphobe really is...afraid of child rapists? yeah, I guess I am in a sense).
