Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Yup, but the PC police prefer the softer, gentler term "undocumented immigrants".<< If anyone bothered to read my post before (predictably) flipping out and looking up dictionary definitions of words, I never said I agree that the term "illegal alien" is incorrect. I was merely pointing out that the term, for a variety of reasons, has been replaced with other terms by and large. You can choose to accept it or not, you can like it or not, but there it is. I went to great pains to not endorse or condemn this shift, just trying to point it out here so that people can make their points and understand why the term provokes a strong reaction in people. Language changes over time, terms once okay become incendiary, and if you choose to use words that instantly provoke, be my guest.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Well, I personnally never had a problem with the wording of illegal aliens and never mentioned it, its just the idea of bashing them to bash is what bothers me more >> Exactly. What you call these folks doesn't make a helluva lot of difference. It is the vitriol directed towards them which really bothers me. Yes. Some of the illegals are criminals. They come here and prey on citizens and have no right to be in this country. They should be tossed out as quickly as possible. Of course a pretty decent percentage of U.S. citizens are criminals also, so they don't have the market cornered on that. But most of the illegals are here doing the best they can to earn a living and raise a family. They aren't breaking any laws (other than immigration laws); they aren't causing anyone any trouble. They are taking jobs that most Americans don't want. They work in the stifling heat to take care of our farms and give us food to eat. They replace our roofs when no one else wants the job. They do the dirty work in the slaughterhouses so we all can enjoy our burgers and steaks. Most of these people are motivated by the most pure and moral goals there are. They want to support their family. They want their kids to have a better life than they have. They truly appreciate the American dream while many of us citizens have forgotten it. Many of these people are not criminals. They are heroes. They are the type of people that made this country what it is today. But hate 'em all. What the hell? If one is rotten they all must be. Just like the Blacks. Until we discovered we were wrong. I love California and think the Californian's I've met are great. But you folks do have the reputation in much of the country of being a bunch of self-absorbed jerks. At times you really seem to do everything you can to justify the stereotype.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But you folks do have the reputation in much of the country of being a bunch of self-absorbed jerks." Do you see the irony in you saying this?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Do you see the irony in you saying this?>> No, I don't. I care about California. I read about California. I think about California. Can you say that about Minnesota or any other state? I doubt it.
Originally Posted By jonvn I care about Minnesota. It's where Mary Tyler Moore lived. And I care about other states. Um...I hear Delaware is nice. And I had a very nice lobster dinner in Massachusetts once. The irony there is that you were complaining about how people label an entire group of individuals based on their status, yet you did the same thing when you labeled Californians based on their status.
Originally Posted By JohnS1 You should hear the way locals in Spokane utter the word when Californians relocate here! You'd think their presence here was illegal. Having come from California once myself, I prefer to think of them as undocumented Washingtonians.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Can you say that about Minnesota or any other state?<< Georgia's on my mind.
Originally Posted By SoThisIsLove <<They are taking jobs that most Americans don't want.>> Yeah, the people who should be making/enforcing border laws to protect our sovereignty. Somebody should take their jobs. The American lawmakers/elected officials apparently don't want their jobs. I am afraid of the terrorists coming over the border...it's a nightmare. I am privy to just a tiny slice of the intel, and it will cause you to sleep, let me tell you. Don't fool yourself. The cells are here, sleeping and waiting. We need to enforce border laws and do all we can to the good people who want to come here legally and make it easier for them. But we shouldn't just let billions enter unchecked.
Originally Posted By SoThisIsLove <<do all we can to the good people who want to come here >> I left out the operative word: help
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<You don't have to put 'immigrant' in quotes, bro.>> Actually, I did that on purpose as I feel an immigrant is someone who strives to be a citizen or at least a permanent resident of the country they are living in. I consider myself more of an expat--someone who lives and works in the country, but has no permanent status in the said country like someone who is married there, has applied for a green card, etc, etc, or in other words you . Still, just the same, if you are living and PAYING TAXES in the country, just because you aren't a citizen doesn't mean you should be treated with suspicion and a complete outsider either.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<Never a moment's problem at immigration (both foreigner and "local"), never a second glance at customs. Could it possibly be because I'm white and you're black?>> In a word, YEP!!!! You know me very well, I'm not the type to pull the race card just because someone treats me differently, but this is a pattern I have seen in the last 9 years since I been going to Japan and been in dozens of countries on top of it. I'm not saying EVERY time I go through customs, but certainly more than average. I see it every time. A Japanese or White person is in front of me, it's 80% chance the Japanese will get through, at least 50-50 the White person will make it through and me easily about a third of the time. It gets annoying FAST!!!! Like I said though, they are ALWAYS courteous and kind and it never gets beyound looking through the bag every few minutes, but its still a pain in the you-know-what. But last time I was in Hong Kong, it was the same thing though. I went through not one, not two, but THREE sepearate 'random' checks. If the odds of me of going through all three random checks are that good, I should start playing the lottery again . Ironically, for all the talk of America being overly proactive and unnecessarily thourough with their search procedures, I haven't been checked ONCE when I was there since Sept. 11th. Not a single time and I been there maybe 4 or 5 times since. So I don't know? You tell me. Is it paranoia, overreacting or Japan just see a Black man, ASSUME its drug related and a minute later my bags are being turned upside down like it's a present given to a 8 year old on Christmas .
Originally Posted By WorldDisney **its just the idea of bashing them to bash is what bothers me more** <<What's wrong with "bashing" criminals? ESPECIALLY, as Peeaanuut pointed out, criminals who are commiting MORE CRIMES.>> Nothing to an extent, but there is a racial element that simply CAN'T be ignored and that the illegal alien issue gets carried over to ALL latino's as a whole JUST like the illegal Chinese immigrants in Japan and Korea seems to get carried to all of them as a whole and the reality is although I know most people know the difference between someone who either came to America legally or was born there, many simply don't and treat ALL mexicans like they don't belong there or just there to clean their yards or be their kids nanny. I was born and raised in L.A. I seen it all my life and although people talk about the serious issues of the economic and population strain illegals put on many states like California, Neveda, Arizona, etc, a great deal of them seem to use the immigration issue as thin veil to show their racism and I seen this over and over not just people in general, but my OWN family and friends. The issue has polarized so many people that they seem to create a blanket a hate for what is honestly a problem we are partly responsible for because WE keep hiring them. And yes, I never exactly look at these people as 'criminals' they way I look at child moelester, rapists and murders because most of them are simply trying to make a better life for their families and taking jobs that you or I will never do (of course, I LOVED then Presient Vicente Fox's speech once where he noted that Mexicans are taking jobs 'that not even Black people want to do'. LOL, that certainly won over the debate from every Black person I know ;D). Anyway, yes, they are breaking the law and if they get caught, they should be deported, period. But I simply don't like the attitude of using them as some punching bag as some people who has created all the problems in America somehow. Every country seems to do this, its somehow 'those people' that are destroying the utopia that has been created. They used this same line when the Irish first came to the country, later when slaves were freed and now the immigration crisis. People have got it through their heads THEY are the ones creating all the problems in parts of America when the reality is if we got rid of every single illegal alien today those problems will still exist. That's really all my point is in all of this.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I love California and think the Californian's I've met are great. But you folks do have the reputation in much of the country of being a bunch of self-absorbed jerks.>> LOL, that's basically what the rest of the world thinks about us Americans in general ;D.
Originally Posted By Mr X **If anyone bothered to read my post before (predictably) flipping out and looking up dictionary definitions of words, I never said I agree that the term "illegal alien" is incorrect.** If you're referring to me among others, I did read your post and wasn't replying to you in particular but to the matter in general.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Yes. Some of the illegals are criminals.** No, all of them are. It's a crime to enter a sovereign country without permission or to purposely overstay a visitors visa.
Originally Posted By Mr X **If the odds of me of going through all three random checks are that good, I should start playing the lottery again .** lol.
Originally Posted By Mr X **Is it paranoia, overreacting or Japan just see a Black man, ASSUME its drug related and a minute later my bags are being turned upside down like it's a present given to a 8 year old on Christmas .** In all fairness, I think the amount of times you've entered Japan as a tourist is probably fairly unusual...so I could understand them checking you over at immigration (a friend of mine who travels a lot was almost not allowed entry once, he had to call a friend at the embassy to sort things out!). Customs, though? Doesn't seem right.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Yeah, and that's the ODD thing, at immigration I'm never asked anything lol. I go, they look at my pretty teeth, ask me maybe one question, 'how long are you in Japan' and throw the stamp on it. Cleared, never a single problem. But at customs, yeah, its like they got my picture up or something lol.
