Originally Posted By BriGuy85 It's so hurtful that California has officially discriminated, YES DISCRIMINATED, against equal rights. Gays and Lesbians are NOT equal is what California voted. Prop 8 ELIMINATED rights from us through a constitutional BAN. This goes back to when black people were discriminated and women couldn't vote. IT'S THE SAME THING. I am still a taxpayer who legally lives here just like yesterday. Today we are now DIRECTLY discriminated against by the people who are supposed to be there to protect us, our government. I am now calling myself as a "second-class citizen." I am doing this because it is the truth. We are directly discriminated against. I am still *proud* of my country and would do anything to protect us. Marriage is a HUMAN right. NOT a HETEROSEXUAL privilege. There is really nothing YES supporters can back themseleves up with, except ignorance. Not religion, Not ways of life, ig-nor-rance! If you believe this as strongly as I do please help our state, and country make the right choices. It's really a sad time for California. Honestly.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger I want to marry my sister, but I can't. They are DISCRIMINATING against me just because I'm blood related. Shouldn't siblings have the same right to marry as those of non-related couples?
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Does your sister want to marry you? If so then go for it. I'd be all for making it legal. It'll keep people like you from successfully breeding.
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Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I want to ask a question, what makes one of these choice right and the other wrong?
Originally Posted By mele I don't think it's wrong that schoolsinger wants to marry her sister. I'm glad that she's found love in the arms of her biological sister. Of course, any mental health professional would be able to tell you a lot more about how dysfunctional schoolsinger and her sister are but it's not morally wrong that she and her sister choose to find love in eachother's arms. I would hope that someone as smart as you, dave, would know the medical and psychological aspects at play with siblings who marry and have sex together. Are you saying that incest and homosexuality are the same? As for schoolsinger, if it's so important for you to marry your sister, I think you should start campaigning in your town. How does your church feel about your incestual relationship? Do you have the guts to campaign for your rights?
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Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Are you saying that incest and homosexuality are the same?<<< Nope, just asking where the line is drawn, what is ok and what is not, and who decides? That's all.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>would know the medical and psychological aspects at play with INSERT GROUP who marry and have sex together.<<< But yes, I am very well aware of genetic mutations (and find this a very gross area I have had too many dealings in for my liking). However, to some people, an LGB relationship is almost as gross. What makes one right and one wrong? And I am seriously interested in the answer to this.
Originally Posted By mele I'm not saying one is wrong, however, it's disingenuous to say that siblings committing incest wouldn't have vast psychological problems. I know you're trying to have a bigger discussion but I'm not saying that schoolsinger's incestuous relationship is wrong. Maybe schoolsinger and her family will seek out the help they need. I'm sure there are other family issues so maybe their entire family would do well to seek help.
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Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I am taking to some extreme to try to calm people down a little. This is a blow for gay rights. But there are many who see this as a part of the spectrum. I am trying to ask who decides (I know it is about societal mores, norms and folkways - heck, this is what I love about Star Trek, playing with these ideas). But yes, to some, both are perversions. Why is one right and one wrong?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo And if one is a bigot to think LGB behaviours are a perversion, why is one not a bigot to find other behaviours deviant too?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo The key thing here is to try to understand both sides of the stories, and work to show why rights should be extended. But by each sides showing better understanding, it is much much easier to resolve the problem. Having worked on disability rights, it is a similar story. Why allow more room between aisles, build accessable rooms/software, etc? Militant protesters turned people off (god knows I used to be one). But by finding logical, even handed arguements and expressions and keep asking hard questions, eventually people will change there way of thinking. A bunch of radicals at a Pride march probably turn more people off of the cause than aid it. But demonstrating wonderful loving case studies of gay families, using the power of debate to make it an issue around love (moreso than sex), protection of families (of all types) and questioning why one set of rights is not better or worse, but should be equal to another, is far more likely to support the cause.
Originally Posted By mawnck I'm mawnck, and I approve davewasbaloo's message. (Can we stop saying this now?)
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>But demonstrating wonderful loving case studies of gay families, using the power of debate to make it an issue around love (moreso than sex), protection of families (of all types) and questioning why one set of rights is not better or worse, but should be equal to another, is far more likely to support the cause.<< Perhaps, but Dave, as Josh and ElderP have amply demonstrated, they are not interested in hearing anything. They are the superior folk, end of discussion. They're not the only ones like this. I wish I could be as optimistic about people as Dabob2 is...
Originally Posted By schoolsinger Just to let you know my desire to marry my sister has not gone beyond a casual thought. I am not seriously trying to marry her. I just wanted to see if the proponents of gay marriage on this forum had any limits what would they would consider be acceptable in a "marriage". Should polygamy be allowed? Should we be allowed to marry our pet? Where should we draw the line?
