Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon Did someone actually say that Islam is the religion of peace? <a href="http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=901d84d6-f1f4-400c-b845-844338fa8f3c&k=11593" target="_blank">http://www.canada.com/topics/n ews/world/story.html?id=901d84d6-f1f4-400c-b845-844338fa8f3c&k=11593</a> BAGHDAD (AP) - Iraqi police on Saturday found eight severed heads north of Baghdad with a note indicating at least one of the men were killed in retaliation for the slaying of four Shiite doctors, authorities said. Notes found with the heads near a highway in the Hadid village near the volatile city of Baqouba, 60 kilometres northeast of Baghdad, said one of those killed was Abdul Aziz al-Sheik Hamad and accused him of killing four Shiite doctors and a former governor during the administrator of former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. The heads were transferred in fruit boxes to the morgue in Baqouba, a mixed Sunni Arab-Shiite town that has recently seen an increase in sectarian violence. Gunmen also ambushed a police checkpoint in the city on Saturday, killing seven policemen and wounding five pedestrians, police said. Elsewhere, gunmen opened fire on two people in a car, killing one of them and wounding the other, in a drive-by shooting in the predominantly Sunni Dora neighbourhood in southern Baghdad. One of those killed was a car salesman, Lt. Maitham Abdul Razzaq said. A bomb also struck a police car in eastern Baghdad, wounding three policemen and one civilian, police said. At least four bodies were found across Baghdad on Saturday, including a man in his 40s who was shot to death with his hands and legs bound, then dumped behind a hospital in Sadr City and two other men who were bound and shot to death, showed signs of torture and were left near a ditch near the Shiite slum. The fourth body, which was shot in the head and showed signs of torture, was found in an intersection in eastern Baghdad. Again, can you imagine the uproar of the American Liberals if christians were pulling this type of thing anywhere in the world?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Again, can you imagine the uproar of the American Liberals if christians were pulling this type of thing anywhere in the world?>> Their religion is irrelevant. Islamic people are both the killers and the victims here. It is violence based on long standing hatred between two groups of people. It is far more political than religious.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder What it illustrates is the fantasy that we're laboring under in Iraq. Oh yeah, give these people "democracy" and everything will be hunky-dory. What rock are some of you living under? The three main factions in Iraq HATE each other, they've done so for centuries, and no amount of "voting" for leaders will change that. But let's keep our troops over there, getting killed by the truckload each day, because a few years of our occupation will change centuries of history. Talk about delusional.
Originally Posted By jonvn They aren't interested in democracy. Never have been. The only type of government that works well there is the type that Saddam had. And as soon as we leave, it will go back to that.
Originally Posted By jonvn It's just not our job to impose our ideas and morality on other countries. It IS our job to make sure that we are safe from places like this, though. And this is where we have gone wrong. Instead of making US safe, we're trying to rescue THEM, from THEMSELVES. And they don't want it. If we stay in Iraq, we need to shift the mindset away from helping them, to protecting us. And let them know that we don't give a rat's rump about them or their country, or any part of it. They brought it on themselves with their behavior, and now they need to pay for it with a brutal occupying force. That's the only thing that will work, and we're not going to do it, so we are basically doomed to failure.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Is this a relatively new position for you jon? I thought I remembered you as a supporter of the iraq war - but that was some time ago.
Originally Posted By jonvn Only insofar as there were WMD there, and they were about to be launched at us. Well, there were none. And none of the other reasons have panned out. And we're screwing it up. And it's keeping us from fighting people who really are our enemy. The thing is just because you may take a position on something, does not mean you should stick with it until you die. If the situation changes, you should have the intellectual honesty to be able to make the right choices at the right time.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<It's just not our job to impose our ideas and morality on other countries. It IS our job to make sure that we are safe from places like this, though.>> Since when is allowing individual human being basic Freedom and Liberty? If this was the case then we might as well shut down the United Nations. "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what this country can do for you, but what you can do for this country". "My fellow citizens of the world ask not what the US will do for you, but together what we can do for the Freedom of Man."
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<"My fellow citizens of the world ask not what the US will do for you, but together what we can do for the Freedom of Man.">> Yep... that's a pretty clear statement that the U.S. is there IF the country wants freedom and wants to help get there. They don't.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Yep... that's a pretty clear statement that the U.S. is there IF the country wants freedom and wants to help get there. They don't. >> The people of Iraq want freedom. I thought the voting turn outs despite death threats and purple inked fingers proved that point. The Iraqs are not the ones causing all this mayhem. Its the crazy Muslims from other Middle Eastern countrys, like Iranians and Jordanians that are causing all the problems in Iraq. These muslims from "other" countries do not want to see Iraq become a Democratically governed country.
Originally Posted By jonvn "The people of Iraq want freedom" No. They want their little schism to control the other ones. That's why they are blowing each other up.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Everyone wants to be free. It's human nature. Then along comes Islam and everything gets turned upside down. The good news is that Northers Iraq in the Kurd area is booming and people are living free and happy. Turkey is another example of a place where Muslims can act civilized. It is possible but the right government has to be in place.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Everyone wants to be free. It's human nature." As is evidenced on this very board, they only want to be free enough so that they can control how others behave.
Originally Posted By jonvn And of course Moslems can be civilized. They have to let go of their hatreds, first, though, which I don't see happening any time soon.
Originally Posted By CrouchingTigger Posts #6 & 7 >> >>Is this a relatively new position for you jon? I thought I remembered you as a supporter of the iraq war - but that was some time ago.<< Post #7: Only insofar as there were WMD there, and they were about to be launched at us. Well, there were none. And none of the other reasons have panned out. << You mean someone on this board can actually change their opinion??? *Faints*
