Originally Posted By AutoPost This topic is for Discussion of <a href="http://www.LaughingPlace.com/Latest-ID-80823.asp" target="_blank"><b>Latest: Jim Hill On the Billions Being Spent On Walt Disney World Development</b></a> <p>In answer to a reader question lamenting the lack of investment in Disney World compared to the recent major upgrades to Disney California Adventure, Jim Hill details the billions currently being spent there on New Fantasyland, Art of Animation, FastPass Plus and more and why spending at Disney World is done differently than it is at Disneyland.</p>
Originally Posted By FerretAfros He brought up a lot of interesting information, but never seemed to get down to the heart of the matter. Yes, WDW is spending a lot of money right now, but it's not nessecarily in ways that are the most impactful to guests. How many will actually see the new DVC units or stay at the new AOA hotel? Yah, it will be great for some, but most won't even realize it's there. WDW is physically huge. We've known that since day one. So has Disney. If they want to make an impact on a property that large, they'll need to invest a porportionally huge chunk of money. Projects like a road widening might be considered expensive in the real world, where taxpayers question every decision, but compared to the budgets for new attractions, it's pennies on the dollar. If they want to make a big impact throughout the resort that guests will be able to notice immediately, it will need to be a significantly bigger effort than the DLR improvements; keep in mind that you can't see all of the park entrances from one spot in WDW, which makes it a lot harder to consolidate an investment. The last time that WDW has a really impactful resort-wide upgrade was during the 100 Years of Magic campaign, when each park got a new parade. That was probably the cheapest way to make a splash, since parades cost less up front than attractions, have limited wear and tear, and can be tied nicely into a singular marketing package that the average guest will understand. Investing in 2 hotels, a street, a plot of land in one of the parks, and a huge amorphous technology "upgrade" that seems like it will only enhance guests' stress levels is just dumb if they're trying to make a splash. I don't question that most of these things need to be done, however, I question the motive behind them. For the most part, it seems like they're trying to catch up with demand, not lead the way. In DCA, they did the improvements to drive attendance, not as a reaction to the guests who were already there.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Know that WDW (and all resort areas) are long-term assets and infrastructure. When they are built, they're built for long-term applications. Getting these "necessities" done enable impactful, momentary-relevant things to happen next.
Originally Posted By tonyanton The article was a lot of nothing. It just felt like a lot of justifying of poor WDW management over the past 15 years or so. It is funny to me, as someone who went to WDW from the mid-70s (as a young child), when they managed to have this entire resort and still maintain the parks, resorts, and infrastructure. The argument that there is more to maintain now should be moot, as overall attendance and occupany of the hotels has increased from the days of just 1 or 2 theme parks and a small handful of hotels.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The online WDW contingent occasionally comes across to me as being slightly annoyed/miffed/bitter that the spotlight has been on DLR lately after it finished its second expansion in 10 years after sitting in dusty old Anaheim essentially unchanged since 1955. From its opening onward WDW underwent drastic changes with four... wait... FOUR theme parks and dozens of new hotels! Even today DLR looks second rate in comparison. I understand why some of you are critical of WDW management, but the arguments that WDW is languishing are absurd considering how vast the options are there. It seems even sillier when you take into account that there are new attractions, venues, and hotels being built right now.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom What new hotels are being built? AoA resort? Well, it was partially finished when construction halted on September 11, 11 years ago today ( how appropriate to discuss this today ). And then the buildings sat "languishing" for ten years. What new additions have been added to the Magic Kingdom? The new Fantasyland so called expansion is built on the ground that the former 6K and Mickey's Birthdayland/ Toontown Faire occupied. In fact the only property that wasn't accessible to quests in the Fantasyland expansion was formerly a small eight space parking lot for Disney management. I'm pleased that Disney is spending money. It is great that have a private island, cruise ships galore, built a couple cities in Florida, have built more timeshares then everyone else in the world combined, now have the timeshare property in Hawaii. BUT, in my opinion, none of that should have been in lieu of rountine maintenance at WDW or any other Disney park. Really, is the expectation that people dodge concrete carvings falling off The Tree of Life in DAK? Or is the expectation that trainloads of quests withstand collapsing light poles on Everest? Did the Disney Company really need to spend a billion dollars on RFID chips on refillable mugs and other high tech gadgetry yet to be realized? While there was no dragon or sorcerer Mickey during Fantasmic, simply because the lift broke and they didn't have a pair lift? Many here believe that WDW has done a reasonably well job of maintain the Magic Kingdom. Many here share my feelings that ALL the other parks at WDW are not being maintained, let along improved upon. That is why I started my thread a while back called; It's always Marsha, Marsha, Marsha. Because at WDW it is always the Magic Kingdom, Magic Kingdom, Magic Kingdom. I think there is a gracious plenty going on within the "other" parks at WDW to prove that things are languishing. Of coures the "other" obvious point is that WDW rakes in more money than any other Disney resort. In the grand scheme of all Disney things, WDW is kinda up there! You'd think Disney management would demonstrate a great appreciation for 'The Most Magical Place on Earth'.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt All that is true, but why does it need to be discussed in the context of DLR's expansion? "In answer to a reader question lamenting the lack of investment in Disney World compared to the recent major upgrades to Disney California Adventure, Jim Hill details the billions currently being spent there...." This is specifically what I'm talking about. It's not like people were standing around wagging their fingers for decades when WDW was getting the lionshare of investment while all DLR got was a new ride every now and then.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom So, Jim Hill dances around the question while wowing us with all that money spent at WDW. Very little of which has ever been actually been spent in any WDW park. Obviously, if I was posing questions to Mr Hill or interviewing him I would be a bit more specific than settling for vague answers like "billions and billions are spent at WDW each year". Yeah, how much of it in the actual parks, Dude! As for the New Fantasyland reclaimation project. 20K didn't really need to be take out. That was an Eisner decision all the fans were against. And using Jim Hill's logic stock options and the bonus pool made to the Disney Execs enhanced WDW. Meanwhile, guests are dodging falling objects at the Tree of Life and Everest.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom As for DLR, I stand cheering with my fellow Disney fans to the improvement made to the park that Roy Disney called in his filing of a US Securities and Exchange complaint: "The continued suppression of innovation - fixing the off-the-shelf rides -- is likely as the schemers desperately try to avoid any financial write-offs at this time". "California Adventure has failed and will never come close to generating the financial return the planners forecast." I really don't see how the lack of financing at WDW has anything to do with improvements made to DLR, when the Disney Company allocated a billion on RFID chip refillable mugs and yet to be realized gadgetry. Construction on DVCs at WDW certainly has not stopped. I guess it is funny that with the Disney Company spending all those billions on ships, Hawaii, cities in Florida, improvements to DLR, RFID chip mugs and NextGen.... none of that ever seemed to affect DVC construction at WDW. I don't buy Mr Hill's arguement. He's making excuses. Which in my opinion is grasping at straws.
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Remember, a larger parcel of land with more hotels, restaurants, etc. to maintain also means more revenue from those hotels, restaurants, etc. Disneyland might cost less to maintain due to its size, but it also generates less revenue because of that size. Are you willing to say that the total investment in Walt Disney World over the last five years proportionately matches the investment in Disneyland based upon the respective profits of each coast?" "WDW is physically huge. We've known that since day one. So has Disney. If they want to make an impact on a property that large, they'll need to invest a porportionally huge chunk of money. Projects like a road widening might be considered expensive in the real world, where taxpayers question every decision, but compared to the budgets for new attractions, it's pennies on the dollar. If they want to make a big impact throughout the resort that guests will be able to notice immediately, it will need to be a significantly bigger effort than the DLR improvements;" I agree with the poster on this article and Ferret 100% if WDW is much bigger and making alot more money than Disneyland shouldnt they be investing a heck of a lot more than 1.1 billion?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Point 1: I think your comparing apples to oranges and I find the dollar for dollar cost comparisons misleading. It costs more in California for land, labor and materials than it does in Orlando, Florida. It probably costs twice as much to build a ride in California than it does to build the exact same ride in Orlando, Florida. If expenses were the same on either cost than DL would be buying up land in Anaheim left and right. Heck, the parkinglots at DLR are probably worth more than the cash value of the entire Magic Kingdom park at WDW. Point 2: It's easy to say your spending lots of money in WDW. And believe me the Disney Company is spending lots and lots of money there. Your typical guest doesn't always see it because it isn't being spent on the parks. A good example would be the Disney reservation desk in Downtown Disney. The Disney Corporation spent a lot of money constructing that facility. It handles reservations for WDW as well as the Disney Cruise Line, and probably more. So, althought money was ultimately spent at WDW, that facility enhances several different entities under the Disney Corporate umbrella. Things can and often do get a bit fuzzy when your trying to seperate WDW exclusively from a conversation involving the Disney Corporation. DLR is a bit different, because in Disney Corporate eyes it is a stand alone entitiy.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>It's not like people were standing around wagging their fingers for decades when WDW was getting the lionshare of investment while all DLR got was a new ride every now and then.<< I seem to recall that complaint coming up a lot in the early 00's. After TL 98 and DCA were built, there was very little money put into DL, while WDW got several headliner attractions (Millenium Celebration, 100 Years of Magic, Mission:Space, Kali, Stitch's Great Escape, etc). The turning point finally seemed to be around the 50th in 2005, when DL proved that it could make money by marketing the park's nostalgia (a rut that it's been stuck in for years, at the expense of other possibilities, IMO); a celebration which was marked by opening 4 new attractions/experiences in...WDW. Yes, the focus of DL's anniversary celebration from a corporate level was on additions to WDW; after all, it was the 50th anniversary of Disney Parks! I think that these discussions were sort of a subtext of the "man, DCA really sucks" discussions, but they were definitely there. I recall a feeling from the west coasters at the time that they were the redheaded stepchild that had been saddled with a failure of a park, and instead of addressing the problems at DLR, the Company's focus was on making money at the Vacation Kingdom of the World.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Thanks Jim Hill for writing this. I actually like the additions. I understand WDW's thoughtful, and cautious march to its future 1000 years of history.
Originally Posted By dshyates The headline of JH's article should have read: "Disney Spends Billions, No One Notices"
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "After TL 98 and DCA were built, there was very little money put into DL, while WDW got several headliner attractions (Millenium Celebration, 100 Years of Magic, Mission:Space, Kali, Stitch's Great Escape, etc)." Wasn't that when the DLR expansion was under construction? $1 billion was being spent building DTD, The Grand Californian, a humongous parking structure, and an entire theme park while people were complaining that nothing new was being done. Sheesh.
Originally Posted By tashajilek ^^^ I dont understand the complainers either. Nothing gets me more excited than a new parking lot! "C'mon. That Fantasyland improvement is enormous. " I dont think anyone is arguing the fact that it doesnt look great, but what they chose to stick in there isnt. For me having 2 dumbo rides is the stupidest waste of money.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Nothing gets me more excited than a new parking lot!" Parking lots are not on trial here Tasha! "For me having 2 dumbo rides is the stupidest waste of money." It wouldn't be as stupid if there weren't already two rides just like it in the park already.
