Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>You know, I'm entirely serious when I say it would've been cool to have a winery ride-through attraction, showing how wine is made, especially if you could get some smells in there. Not sure it would be fun for the AA set, though, but not every attraction has to be for everyone.<<< There is a champagne winery in Reims that has a dark ride that takes you through the process. But I doubt the Disney of today would build such an attraction now.
Originally Posted By Mr X **See, it's not the theme. It's how they executed on it.** Fair point. You can really "theme" anything. (heck,you can theme "tomorrow" (how crazy!), or fantasy, or the old west, or some other time (20's? 30's? some sort of hollywood era?, adventure (what does THAT mean, exactly?), and so on... The way they present it makes all the difference......
Originally Posted By Mr X **There is a champagne winery in Reims that has a dark ride that takes you through the process. But I doubt the Disney of today would build such an attraction now.** I'd drink to that!!
Originally Posted By dshyates Seasons/Mondavi is not what I really disliked about DCA when it opened. And I agree it gave it kind of an EPCOT air for the 25 yards it sits on. And after Mondavi left they, as jon said, let it rot. The Pressler era leaders truely didn't know S#&t from shinola. When the park wasn't an immediate succes, they ditched a lot of the quality stuff. Its like they thought the park wasn't crappy enough for the Disney Demo. So the let Wolfgang/Mondavi walk. Got rid of the interesting and unique entertainment and added bumper cars.
Originally Posted By dshyates Is it possible that Pressler et al thought that the crappy little park was too high brow for the Disney Demo. That we weren't sophisticated enough to "get" a portable Mack Mad Mouse.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It was one of those neat little Disney gems -- not an E ticket by any stretch, just a neat little thing that added some variety, was totally in theme with the park, and rounded out the day.> Exactly. When I saw it (and this was after Mondavi pulled out), they had a CM outside the film with a little live presentation that was the kind of thing Disney parks do so well. She had various glasses of wine on a platter. You didn't drink them, you smelled them, and then smelled the various things that contributed to the "notes" the wine had... butter, cherries, chocolate, depending on the wine. It was interesting to see how you could really smell those things subtly in the wine. I quite enjoyed it. Very adult, very EPCOT in a good way, and the sort of thing DCA should have done more of, and that many people weren't even aware that it had. I don't see why they couldn't have put the preview section in the SF buildings that have no real purpose, anyway.
Originally Posted By dshyates They are going to move the restrooms into the SF building for 2 reasons. LM is going to use the land where the current restrooms are, and they feel with as popular as WOC is going to be they will need much larger restrooms. You know how the sound of fountains effect people, particularly older guys.
Originally Posted By jonvn "they ditched a lot of the quality stuff. Its like they thought the park wasn't crappy enough for the Disney Demo" This is exactly what they did.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I think a lot of people have a snobbery regarding theme parks. It's as if theme parks are for the 'commoners' or something. Then, suddenly these same people have children, and feel compelled to do 'the Disneyland thing' [an expression I hate]. It seems to suggest that you going to theme parks is 'kid's stuff' and then once you're an adult, you don't do that anymore. Thank goodness my life isn't that black and white.
Originally Posted By jonvn This is really the most frustrating thing about the place. It opened with some very quality ideas in place. Just not totally fulfilled. But there was folks online who just trashed it because it was easy to trash. Not a single word of praise came about for the place, and it did deserve some. It was going for an adult, varied atmosphere with a different mindset. So now after all these years of people ripping it to shreds, Disney instead of going with their original intent of making a place that was cool and fun and interesting, is now jamming it with cartoons and lowest common denominator junk that the loudmouths on the net said was needed, but were not. The place simply needed to be filled out as it was. They did not do that, and turned the place into a mess. It's a real loss for Disney, and for people who like their parks, for people who enjoy places like Epcot.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Got rid of the interesting and unique entertainment and added bumper cars.<< The world's slowest, overly-safe bumper cars, where bumping is continuously discouraged. More like nudger cars.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The frustrating thing about DCA is that once again, it will become a hodge-podge of stuff. As the CA theme is abandoned, why attempt to make things fit into a boardwalk, or national park, or Hollywood theme? If it is to be Pixarland, or CartoonLand or whatever, then I wish they'd just go totally with that and take it to the hilt. Whatever the theme is, take it and run with it. But enough with the wierd mishmash.
Originally Posted By Ursula Frankly, I thought it was already closed! I've tried to see it a few times in my travels there and each time, it was never opened. I'll do you one better: I wanted to show it to someone from out of town and asked a cast member who was RIGHT there working...they had no idea what I was talking about and said maybe I saw it in another Disney park! Ha!
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <...they had no idea what I was talking about and said maybe I saw it in another Disney park! Ha!> ouch.
Originally Posted By PrincessDisneyLover I saw it in December, there was even a CM who knew what they were doing and did a good job with the show. I'm glad I got to see it then, it was my first time, and my last...
Originally Posted By mawnck What a tragedy that they have so little respect for these classic Pressler-era attractions. (/sarcasm)
Originally Posted By Dabob2 As many have said, it was a little gem - not an E-ticket, but an informative and atmospheric, more adult little treasure. Of the sort Disney used to do a lot more often.
Originally Posted By Britain I will resist the temptation to comment on this DCA Monday Morning Quarterbacking... Must... Re.. Jonvn, I think all your points are correct and valid. In many ways, DCA attempted to recreate the mature sophisticated Epcot experience. And yes, instead of nurturing the sophisticated concepts and adding real attractions to flesh out the mature atmosphere, they cut bait and ran. However, having said all that, two factors were working against DCA's favor: 1) Epcot had PRESENCE, GRANDURE and SPECTACLE. 2) Epcot didn't try to marry its sophistication to a carny-atmosphere. While kids might have still yawned and described the attractions as "boring," it was still (is still) a stimulating architectural/theatrical experience moving about the place. Let's use this example: An upscale restaurant like Chefs d'France would give you spectacular views of the lagoon, other country's icons, and the abstract jewels of Future World. A film like Impressions d'France would be a tolerable experience for those with immature attention spans because the screens would wrap around you. But at DCA... Mondavi's restaurant looked out at... a ferris wheel and rollercoaster? And no nighttime lagoon show? The question was finally asked of DCA: Are you going to be a mature product for a mature audience (Westcot it up), a cheap carny product (make it a part of Downtown Disney but require tickets for the rides) or make a Disneyland 2 for the same market that goes to Disneyland? When you think of it that way, the infrastructure of the park is what doomed Seasons of the Vine & Mondavi. Ask yourself which is the wisest option: Tear down California Screamin and replace the whole pier with a World Showcase-like assembly of fine shopping and theatrical presentations, EACH on par with Soarin (the modern-day equivalent to circle-vision)? To lower prices at the restaurant and add more engaging cartoon characters to Paradise Pier (meaning, Woody is more engaging than some generic Man-Hat-N-Beach clown)? Or to really give up, write off hundreds of millions of dollars, and just make it a part of Downtown Disney? Since the first option still wouldn't be as spectacular/vast/jawdropping as Epcot, is it any wonder why they are going the direction they are?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Did they ever consider selling reduced tickets for people with dinner reservations? It wouldn't work too well for lunch (since you could be there the entire day), but they could come up with tickets that let you in like 30 minutes before your reservation to give you plenty of time to get to the restaurant. Then afterwards, you have the rest of the evening to spend in the park. Similar to the old half-day tickets, but these would require a reservation, and would start at different times. I would assume the prices would vary a little, but would probalby be in the $20-30 range, giving the restuarants a chance to get more visitors who may not be as interested in the rest of the park.
Originally Posted By jonvn "The question was finally asked of DCA: Are you going to be a mature product for a mature audience (Westcot it up), a cheap carny product (make it a part of Downtown Disney but require tickets for the rides) or make a Disneyland 2 for the same market that goes to Disneyland?" I think, perhaps, the idea was to make it an epcot with things the kids can like. And having it overlook the rides in the pier area wasn't so bad.
