Originally Posted By Britain I'm not saying it was a horrible view. I'm saying "Amusement Pier" clashes with the positioning of the park as sophisticated. As a thought experiment, how would World Showcase strike you if an "Amusement Pier" was chosen to represent America instead of the stately American Adventure?
Originally Posted By dshyates I do think it was the juxtaposition of the class of Wolfgang and the non-class of a state fair mad mouse all in the same place. I think the Pressler crowd did "get" fine dining. What they didn't "get" was Disney Parks or on a grander scale Amusement Parks. Its like me trying to make "Good" country music, based on the criteria of country music listeners, without knowing what country music listeners think is good.
Originally Posted By jonvn "how would World Showcase strike you if an "Amusement Pier" was chosen to represent America instead of the stately American Adventure?" That's a different sort of thing. That would not fit because it does not match up with what is being offered by the other countries.
Originally Posted By dshyates And the Pier doesn't match up to what is being offered by the other Disney Parks.
Originally Posted By Britain Well, I didn't say that. I think a Pier attraction would be fun, done the right way in the right context. And, I think the Pier works pretty well in DCA (even better now that the stucco is being replaced), because only about %15 of the original park was going for "Epcot Sophistication." The rest of it was going for MGM-ish/Dinoland kitch what with the puns, and Superstar Limo, Corn Dog Castle, etc. I think this goes to show that when Disney does want to do "serious" attractions, it needs to do it on a grand scale. Epcot is a serious park with pockets of fun. DCA was a "hip" park with pockets of serious. And no Seasons of the Vine pocket of seriousness lasts long. Somber American Adventures last. Wonders of China lasts. Spaceship Earth lasts. But little movie theaters tucked into corners?
Originally Posted By jonvn "what with the puns" Seriously, whoever thinks that puns are in any way something that they should be doing should flat out be fired.
Originally Posted By Westsider He was fired. Barry Braverman, the design genius behind DCA, left suddenly "to spend more time with family" several years ago.
Originally Posted By jmuboy Well, here is my two cents: Here is my opinion. "Seasons" is a MINOR attraction and a well done "little" gem for this park. If it turns into a preview center I hope it returns to a film attraction, a little surprise for guests, after the expansion is done and the preview center is no longer needed. As for the Golden Dreams, it could have been great if done in the spirit of the Carousel Theater or like the American Adventure. Sadly, they slashed it back to another film attraction. Personally, the film is not that bad. It just pales in comparison to what it could have been and what Disney is capable of doing.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig Barry Braverman is probably the person singly most responsible for how bad DCA was/is. You can say that Eisner and Pressler set the course for what DCA was supposed to be, but Braverman was responsible for the tone. Someone better suited to the job would have dealt with his marching orders in a much more cohesive, imaginative, and satisfying manner.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig And by the way, I don't really know WHAT DCA was supposed to be. It tried to have educational experiences and higher end retail and dining like Epcot. It tried to have the whole Hollywood thing going like Disney/MGM. It tried to feature the natural environment and adventure kind of like Animal Kingdom. And it tried to have a hipster attitude like Pleasure Island. All of that crammed into 50 acres - the smallest debut size for a brand new Disney park since Disneyland itself opened in 1955. It's no wonder that the place mostly failed in all of the foregoing attempts. A third or more of those precious acres went to the only parts of DCA that were truly original and unique to DCA - Paradise Pier, and Condor Flats. Condor Flats was way too small to convey the atmosphere it strived for, and Paradise Pier was just plain badly executed. Horribly badly executed. I still think DCA is too small to ever approach the class and grandeur of Epcot. Too small to convincingly feel as immersive in the natural world as Animal Kingdom. Too little land devoted to the Hollywood thing to ever convince me that they should have even attempted to have a section devoted to it (save for the crass and expedient reason that they could simply use the area to plunk down clones of attractions from Disney/MGM.) DCA has always been an non-cohesive mess. And maybe it still will be after they add all the stuff they have announced. But at least, after all is said and done, hopefully DCA will have a unique identity truly it's own. Maybe they won't even call it DCA anymore. That would go a long way to removing some of the stench left by those that built the place.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Funny how opinions vary. I love Hollywood backlot - I don't want a whole park themed to this, but a land with 6 key attractions and a fab shop is great. Also, I love the Golden State area - Condor Flats, the wharf, GRR and Golden Dreams are so cool. The pier I can take or leave, but Screamin' is one of the most enjoyable coasters on the planet. I love DCA, I always have. I can understand regular visitors do not feel this way, but we do. ToT, Aladdin, Monsters Inc, Muppetvision 3D, ITTBAB, Soarin', GRR, and Screaming are amongst the very best attractions Disney has ever produced in their classes. These (plus Golden Dreams and Animation) are must do's for us. Compared to DL musts - Jungle Cruise, Tiki Room, Indy, PotC, HM, Splash, IASW, Star Tours and Buzz - the must do line up is actually higher for us at DCA! There is more live entertainment at DL (but in the beginning, DCA matched too). DCA has better dining options (though they have dumbed this down). And some of the vistas in DCA are actually nicer than DL - only NOS and the Rivers of America are stunning to me at DL - whereas I find the views of Grizzly Peak and wharf are fab. And the pier at night is stunning. So, while I agree DCA needs help, I would rather be in DCA than at least half of the other Disney parks across the globe.
Originally Posted By dshyates After having been to MGM many time (actually worked there) I was disappointed at how the HPB came out. Similar concept to MGM on using different iconic building from around the real Hollywood. But it just didn't come out right. At mgm they used iconic builds that were similar in style to the surrounding building. At HPB they used vastly different styles side by side giving it a disjointed feeling. It always felt like a mall (Distinct storefront) tribute to Hollywood not any kind of recreation. It just didn't feel right to me. I always loved the Grizzly Peak and Wharf area. The themeing there is as Disney as it gets. I liked the the Mondavi restaurant/ Seasons. I liked Wolfgangs/ Cove Bar. I agree with jon that the Wharf needed an attraction, but its themeing is very cool. I always assume a Wharf themed attraction would be added because all of the expansion room for the park is adjacent to it. The concept of the pier doesn't bother me. The execution does. I would have loved for them to put in a family friendly woodie. And go Lux like they did in the 20s. Hand oiled mahogany trains. Burgundy leather seats complete with brass studding. Very Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. There are a few wooden coaster companies really pushing the concepts of what you can do with wood. A nice coaster by GCI would have done nicely. They built Thunderhead at Dollywood and it quickly shot to #1 and its max height is 105'. It is a very family friendly coaster yet one of the funnest coasters ever. I can't really put my finger on it, but they pier just missed the mark. It screams for a Tunnel of Love boat ride. A "Kiss the Girl" ride based on the IASW ride system seem like it would fit the bill. I guess an Omnimover will do. And for some reason Golden Zephyr doesn't bother me as much as Mulholland and Orange. Maybe they should have gone with really cool retro rides like the Chute the Chutes, the Whip, and maybe even a funhouse. Can you imagine what the imagineers could do if they unleashed an arsenal of special fx in a walk through funhouse. You could put it where Mulholland is.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo dsyates, although I like HPB and Screaming, I love the direction you suggested for the pier!
Originally Posted By liveforvacations I agree with everything davewasbaloo said about DCA and couldn't have said it better myself. I am not a "local" either but every visit I find myself spending more and more time in DCA. I also love dshyates ideas!
Originally Posted By disneywatcher A hopeful hint of things finally moving to the next stage if the big-nothing attraction of "Seasons" finally is being shut down. Adios, arrivederci and sayonara! The fact it lasted as long as it did -- a full 7 years since its unveiling -- is a good example of how some of DCA's original clunkers took on a life of their own. I guess it also indicates just how really, really bad Superstar Limo must have been.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Superstar Limo must have been. " This phrasing implies this individual never went on the thing. And since they never directly answered the question if they had ever been to the place, you have to really figure that they have not. Yet they have persisted for years in trashing it. Bizarre, to say the least.
