Originally Posted By Rebekah This topic is for discussion of the 2/6/2002 news item <b><a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-020602disney.story" target="_blank">LATimes: Disney Looks to Boost Adventure</a></b> The February 6th <I>Los Angeles Times</I> reports analysts feel new parks see a dip in attendance during the second year, a phenomenon known as the "sophomore slump" but Disney disagrees.
Originally Posted By woody Good article. But I pause on some quotes... "We thought we'd limit Disney characters to the more traditional Disneyland experience," Pressler said. "But lo and behold, our guests said they wanted the characters everywhere. These are things we didn't anticipate, but we read them loud and clear." Didn't they know they each time they opened a new Disney park? EPCOT, D/MGM, DAK. "This has put them way behind, because California Adventure is still not on people's must-see list," said Jim Cammisa Jr., an analyst at Travel Industry Indicators in Miami. It's not designed to be a must-see. "They may have fallen short attendance-wise their first year, but they're not going to let this thing fail," he said. "It needs the buzz, it needs more family offerings, but it will click on. There's still time." Is it close to failing? I didn't think so but it implies that it's coming close to that if nothing is done.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan "But lo and behold, our guests said they wanted the characters everywhere. These are things we didn't anticipate, but we read them loud and clear." I think this sort of comment, along with the many tweaks and fixes they've done to DCA so far show that Disney is listening to its customers. Should they have known some of this in advance? Perhaps, but their earlier research and focus groups showed guests wanted a very different type of park than Disneyland, not Disneyland 2.0 "It needs the buzz, it needs more family offerings, but it will click on. There's still time." All true. And there's simply no way Disney will let DCA not succeed. They'll do what it takes over the next few years, you can count on it. A Bug's Land and TOT will both help build the buzz. The park is just a year old, and like Disneyland, it will look very different in a few years just as Disneyland underwent dramatic changes.
Originally Posted By ArchtMig Since I will most likely never have the opportunity to sit down with current Disney management and voice my opinions about DCA, I guess the next best thing is to respond to their own words and other thoughts attributed to them in this L.A. Times article. Here then, is my editorial rebuttal in "point, counter-point" fashion.: >>>Gone are the quirky street performers and sheet-covered mimes… A fast-paced, pelvis-thrusting dance show has been axed. So has the much-hyped nightly parade that had leotard-clad women shimmying up poles. >>>In their place are a gang of Disney characters performing for visitors… >>>The changes weren't exactly what Walt Disney Co. executives expected. But as Paul Pressler, chairman of Disney's Parks and Resorts Division, acknowledged in a recent interview, it has been a year of lessons for California Adventure.<<< Didn't you guys learn any lessons from Epcot? Wasn't it Michael Eisner himself, when he first took over at Disney, who decreed that the characters should be in Epcot, because he recognized that the guests expected them there? What in the world made you think that your Disney fan base would prefer "Hip and Edgy" over the classic Disney Characters? >>>…California Adventure never came close to meeting attendance projections, even after Disney offered unprecedented discounts and made a series of changes to take some of the edge out of what was billed as an edgier, hipper alternative to Disneyland.<<< Who do you think your market is? What do you think your market has come to EXPECT from you after 45 years in this business?? >>>"I've watched [California Adventure] this past year like a proud father who certainly has greater expectations and aspirations for his son," Pressler said. And he isn't giving up on it.<<< Offspring usually rise to their expectations and aspirations only if they are started off on the proper path by their progenitors in the first place, Mr. Pressler. >>>Pressler and other Disney executives are counting on boosting crowds this year by adding more attractions for small children, among other changes.<<< Why couldn't you have done that in the first place? Who are you trying to attract to this park? Generation Xers only? Adults Only? You know who comes to your parks… it's families with kids. You knew that the majority of this park was not designed for young children. Is the body pierced and tattooed set really that attractive a target group that you really thought all this "hip and edgy" stuff was a good idea? >>>…We've done better than we thought without any Japanese tourists," Disney Chief Executive Michael Eisner said in an interview last week, referring to California Adventure's debut year.<<< Japanese Tourists??? Is that who you built this park for, Mr. Eisner?? Does that mean that you had ME in mind when you built Tokyo Disney Seas? Aw gees, THANK YOU! >>>Analysts say resorts that rely on out-of-state visitors, such as those in Orlando, Fla., probably will struggle the most, while parks that cater to locals, such as Six Flags Inc.'s Magic Mountain in Valencia, will continue to benefit from Americans looking for entertainment closer to home. California Adventure figures to fall somewhere in between.<<< It's common belief that you themed this park after "California" because you expected that it would draw tourists to your newly expanded resort like pollen draws bees. You totally ignored the fact that most of your Anaheim customer base is made up of the local, repeat visitor. You basically thumbed your nose at the local customer base in an effort to expand your multi-day repeat customer base. I don't have a problem with you trying to expand the stay-on-property vacation crowd, that's great. But I've said it before, and I'll say it again… if you built an interesting park that appealed to the local customer base, it would have AUTOMATICALLY appealed to the vacation crowd as well, because "interesting" and "unique" and "heavily detailed" are concepts that have universal appeal. But "off the shelf" and "hip and edgy" seem to be universally rejected by your customer base. >>>Pressler dismissed suggestions that California Adventure's sophomore year will be slower, saying that when a park opens in a year like 2001, "all the rules go out the window."<<< Is that the same window from which you had Barry Braverman throw out the 45 year old rulebook on Disney themepark design lessons? >>>"But there's not much else here that holds my daughter's attention," she said. "This is a park I want to come to when there's a baby-sitter at home." >>>Disney has responded to such reviews by fine-tuning the park. …when Wolfgang Puck Food Co.'s upscale seafood eatery Avalon Cove pulled out of the park, Disney turned the space into a casual restaurant where visitors can interact with Mickey and other characters. >>>"We thought we'd limit Disney characters to the more traditional Disneyland experience," Pressler said. "But lo and behold, our guests said they wanted the characters everywhere. These are things we didn't anticipate, but we read them loud and clear."<<< Things you didn't anticipate, Mr. Pressler, maybe because you threw out that 45 year old book on Disney themepark design lessons??? I suggest you and Mr. Braverman go to the WDI library and pull another copy of that book off the shelves there and read it. >>>Another common gripe is that with about two dozen attractions, including exhibits, California Adventure remains short on thrills.<<< No, it remains short on RIDES, period. They don't ALL have to be "Thrill" rides. They all just have to be unique and interesting. With just a few carnival rides in Paradise Pier, one raft ride, one dumb dark ride, one simulator ride, and the entire rest of the park made up of movies and "edutainment" type attractions, is it any wonder that it doesn't draw good word of mouth??? >>>But there is word that a Tower of Terror attraction--copied from the popular thrill ride at Walt Disney World--will arrive at California Adventure in two years.<<< And this will do what, exactly?? Bring in all the family crowds that aren't coming right now? Enhance the limited "California" theme that you saddled this park with? Will the "Twilight Zone" theme be dropped in favor of one that better fits in with your beloved "hip and edgy" mission? Will it perhaps be the "Xtreme Tower of Terror" now? Perhaps the "Fear Factor Tower of Terror"? Wait, that's NBC… maybe it should be "The CHAIR, Tower of Terror"? >>>Disney executives point out that California Adventure is an anchor for the overall Disneyland Resort, which includes a luxury hotel and a retail entertainment center--and that it takes time to influence consumer behavior.<<< "influence consumer behavior"????? How about just giving your customers what they want in the first place???? >>>Disneyland Resort President Cynthia Harriss said guest surveys routinely have given the new park more than a 90% approval rating.<<< That's just polling the small numbers of people who are already at the park, Ms. Harriss. Your polls don't reflect the opinion of the big crowds of people who you wish would come visit your park, but who are staying away. >>>But as California Adventure heads into its second year, the issue may have less to do with recession woes and more with the public's perception of the new park.<<< I think the perceptions reflect the product in this case.
Originally Posted By Santa Monica There is another topic of the same exact title with more posts in this same section...
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA I don't understand why, in the case of live entertainment, it has to be either one way or the other at DCA. Why couldn't 'Three Bags Full' and those strange plant and flower characters cavort around the San Francisco area, and Bountiful Valley Farm respectively, and Mickey & Co. run around the Sun Court -- all at the same time. Again, it seems like if one demographic has a problem with 'Three Bags Full' and goes and complains about it ["We don't understand what they are supposed to be -- it just doesn't seem Disney to us"] management just tosses the idea out the window. And then, they add in those weird, loud, walk-around Streetmosphere characters in the Sun Court (near the train), and near GRR (the whole painting show with Minnie), and near Condor Flats (with Minnie Earhart), who run around wearing loud, colorful clothing and shriek at everybody. Now there's some entertainment that I truly don't 'get.' And then there's the 'Pocahontas' show -- which, if not for the animatronic Meeko feature, looks like something you'd see at a small town Mall. On the other hand, if someone like me were to say "I'm sick of seeing Mickey and Minnie and Donald and Goofy and Pluto in every Disney theme park with different costumes on" I'd get hog-tied, tar-and-feathered, and sent out of town on a rail. I still give the Imagineers kudos for attempting to try new things -- whether everybody bristles when they hear 'hip and edgy' or not -- whatever. Sometimes you have to shake it up a bit. It's either 'This is a park for the family' or 'This is too hip and edgy' Why can't the new concepts and the traditional concepts live together within the same Park confines?
Originally Posted By woody >>I still give the Imagineers kudos for attempting to try new things<< No way, they played it safe with the theme and rides. Nothing new and ground breaking was attempted. The only thing new was the expectation that they'll succeed. "Hip" might be new for Disney, but it was attempted at varying degrees of "failure" at other Disney Parks.
Originally Posted By Dabob I'm with Jim. I applaud the attempt to do something different. I actually had hoped to see "Three Bags Full" and "DiVine" but by the time I got there, they'd already been dropped. Street entertainers like TBF are certainly appropriate to the San Francisco area (and would actually liven that area up), and if some people don't "get" them, well they can go see the traditional characters. Why does it have to be "either or." Sure, there's a finite number of live entertainment offerings you can offer, but IMO they've gone too far back towards the old characters, at least in terms of specific shows for them. Most kids, I think, are just as happy (or happier) with a simple meet-n-greet anyway, which could certainly take place in the sun court. Also, they might create a "star trailer" in HPB like Cruella's, but that rotates the character "star" that emerges--another meet-n-greet opportunity that isn't a "show" per se. <Why can't the new concepts and the traditional concepts live together within the same Park confines?> Thank you.
Originally Posted By Jim Disney >>I'm with Jim. I applaud the attempt to do something different. I actually had hoped to see "Three Bags Full" and "DiVine" but by the time I got there, they'd already been dropped.<< DiVine is still at the park. JD <a href="http://www.westcoaster.net" target="_blank">http://www.westcoaster.net</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob <DiVine is still at the park. > Okay, good to hear. Didn't see her, and she wasn't listed anywhere, so I assumed she was history. You know what happens when you assume.
Originally Posted By TP2000 I think they have to stick to some semblance of a budget with the entertainment. Not only were people apparently complaining at Guest Services about the artsy street fair stuff, they were apparently also voting with their feet and their wallets when it came to DCA and it's success. And since perhaps the artsy entertainment had a few formal complaints notched in it's belt, it was one of the first things to go. But I think it's the "voting with your wallet" thing that was the biggest cause of the quick and sometimes sweeping changes in DCA's operation during it's first 12 months. The fact that DCA's huge Greetings From California store now carries tons of "Disneyland" stuff, while the Emporium has no sign of "DCA" stuff, pretty much says it all as far as DCA's monetary success it's first year. The DCA-specific type entertainment probably was as successful as the DCA sweatshirts and coffee mugs that weren't selling, so they brought over the more popular Disneyland style wholesome and traditional entertainment.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA It may true that they had to make some adjustments, but again, it always seem so sweeping -- It's either family-oriented kiddy shows, or 3 Bags Full.
Originally Posted By mrdduck Lets see how bad DCA was..... 2nd in attendence in the SC theme park market and a 95% intent to return rate. That was without the Bugs place and TOT and other new tweakings. I think they have a pretty good idea they now what there doing and some of us DCA blasters don't. Figures don't lie and liers don't figure.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "2nd in attendence in the SC theme park market and a 95% intent to return rate." I know it's been pointed out before, but DCA was built on the doorstep of one of the world's most popular theme parks. Disney could have built almost anything there and still have gotten a certain number of people. And let's not forget the number of annual passholders who make up quite a bit of the attendance at DCA...
Originally Posted By damon63 >I know it's been pointed out before, but DCA was built on the doorstep of one of the world's most popular theme parks. Disney could have built almost anything there and still have gotten a certain number of people. And let's not forget the number of annual passholders who make up quite a bit of the attendance at DCA...< And vice-versa. There were lots of people, including myself who would have never gone to Anaheim this year had it not been for the expaned resort. In fact, out of the three times I traveled down from San Francisco, only once did I visit Disneyland Park.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Fun anecdote damon - And I'm somewhat similar - I made two trips inside of ten months (tho I also visited DL both times). But we're anomalies - how many people do you think are going to make a special trip 400 miles JUST to see DCA? Obviously not enough.
Originally Posted By damon63 >But we're anomalies - how many people do you think are going to make a special trip 400 miles JUST to see DCA? Obviously not enough.< Right, but the point is that there were at least a million or so (at least) that DID go to the resort that would not have otherwise simply because of all of the additions.
Originally Posted By tycoon11 Are the guys who jump on the huge drum things still there? They were called.....umm....LaFeet or something. Haven't seen them in a while. And is Road Trip still there? I haven't seen them in a while either.
Originally Posted By driftwood714 Road Trip is the only original entertainment left (except for Eureka which is running Summer only)
