Originally Posted By utahjosh <a href="http://beta-newsroom.lds.org/article/church-mormon-responds-to-human-rights-campaign-petition-same-sex-attraction" target="_blank">http://beta-newsroom.lds.org/a...traction</a> Key points I'd point out: "Further, while the Church is strongly on the record as opposing same-sex marriage, it has openly supported other rights for gays and lesbians such as protections in housing or employment." "Obviously, some will disagree with us. We hope that any disagreement will be based on a full understanding of our position, and not on distortion or selective interpretation. The Church will continue to speak out to ensure its position is accurately understood."
Originally Posted By ecdc Yawn. More of the same. We disagree... Yeah, we kinda picked up on that. And we're all very mindful of your concerted campaign to portray this as an issue that is up for disagreement. Civil rights aren't. You might as well say you disagree that another person has the right to draw breath.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Marriage is the big disagreement here. We support equal rights for gay couples. We don't support gay marriage. Go ahead and live together, have hospital rights, etc. Hardly the same as denying oxygen.
Originally Posted By DAR Wouldn't this be better if it was attached to the other thread. I mean do we really have to do this dance again.
Originally Posted By utahjosh The direction of the other thread was offensive to me, so I wanted to post this relevant information in a new one.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The LDS church can issue statements like this all day long. But as long as they actively finance things like Prop 8, it's just a lot of hollow words.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Blah blah blah. It only took two short paragraphs before the writer tried to compare the victimization of gays & lesbians to what the persecution that LDS Church members suffered in their early years. How does the author reconcile his empathy for marginalization that homosexuals face and LDS Churc's direct responsibly for taking away legal gay marriage rights in California? I'm sick to death of the LDS Church and hypocritical conservatives in general. There's just no point in trying reason with illogical people.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <writer tried to compare the victimization of gays & lesbians to what the persecution that LDS Church members suffered in their early years.> Umm...did you see WHY he made that comparison? To call LDS Church members to have an attitude of understanding and love.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Way to miss the point. It's the LDS church itself that is largely responsible for the persecution they're now decrying.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Way to miss the point. It's the LDS church itself that is largely responsible for the persecution they're now decrying." Thank you Gad. I'm losing patience with Josh. Talking to a religious conservative is like trying to communicate with someone in the Twilight Zone.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Marriage is the big disagreement here.<< Right. You want, according to your own words, separate but equal to return to our nation. Hardly a truly equal thing. And gad is right, you're the cause of the incivility then you wonder why people are being uncivil.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>did you see WHY he made that comparison?<< Yes. Because it was self-serving to do so. You can talk about the LDS' belief in peace and love all you want. But they spent their dollars in an effort to prohibit loving couples from legally spending their lives together in matrimony. What they ended up helping do (it wasn't the LDS alone) was disrupt the lives of families cruelly. Of course, you never question it, so I don't know why you bother to post LDS propaganda of this sort. You and other followers are the only ones who buy it. It's a pity you can't see the harm you do to the LDS church with your posts, Josh. You are not helping them. You're pissing people off who up until Prop 8 felt either good to ambivalent about the LDS church. I'm sure you see the good your church does, and I am sure there are good people in it. But as a matter of policy, they are on the wrong side of civil rights on this issue. Hammering away at it isn't convincing anyone. Given the church's history, it's amazing to me that they are so vehemently on the wrong side of this, but there it is.
Originally Posted By utahjosh ♫ Do do do do do do do do ♫ We don't consider standing up for Marriage as between a man and a woman as persecution.
Originally Posted By utahjosh It's not a hate issue, it's not a civil rights issue. We support civil right for gay couples. Not marriage rights.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan And then there's the issue of you getting smug about it. But to explain that to you would be like spitting in the wind.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "You're pissing people off who up until Prop 8 felt either good to ambivalent about the LDS church." Exactly! Consider me one of those people.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It's not a hate issue, it's not a civil rights issue.<< LOL! Why? Because you say so? (Or more like it, because your church tells you so?) Seriously, take those talking points and... think it over some more.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It's not a hate issue, it's not a civil rights issue. We support civil right for gay couples. Not marriage rights.<< Fortunately in our country, we don't let the persecutors get to define whether or not they're actually persecuting. Your explanation makes as much sense as me punching someone in the face and saying, "Oh, it's not violence at all." I can say that because, as 2oony said, it's self-serving, but it fools no one.
Originally Posted By DAR Josh honest question here. You know that from my history here I'm not part of the hackey sack, tie dye wearing, bongo playing hippies that occupy World Events. But I do support gay rights, including the right to marriage. So my question is two people of the same sex who love each other and are good citizens of the this country and the rest of this world, don't bother anyone else, how does there getting married personally affect you and your family?
