Originally Posted By TomSawyer Yep, looks like God is beginning to change his mind on gay rights. The LDS, through three apostles, is calling for the Utah legislature to pass laws protecting gay people from housing, employment, and public accommodation discrimination. They want the law to include protection the religious freedom of religious groups to discriminate against people. But, still, it's a step. Nice to see that once again God reveals a new way of looking at things once the winds of public opinion on an issue shift.
Originally Posted By utahjosh The LDS church has had this position for quite a while now. This represents absolutely no change in LDS doctrine. It seems at legislative sessions are beginning, they are just making it clear that they still believe in equal rights for all (Though we still disagree on the definition of marriage). And at the same time, they are calling for religious protection. They don't want to be told what they can or can't preach from the pulpit, or be forced to use the churches in ways that contradict their beliefs.
Originally Posted By fkurucz If the LDS Church thinks that they can negotiate being left alone by making a public concession, they are sorely mistaken. It will be interesting to see how long it will take this "crack in the door" to swing wide open, as some here have been predicting will happen.
Originally Posted By utahjosh We all know that gay marriage will be the law of the land, sooner if not later. If you don't know this, you should: The LDS church will continue to treat gays with respect and speak out for fairness, but they will never perform gay marriages or change the law of chastity.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Never is a very long time. I "never" thought I'd see the public's opinion on gay marriage shift as rapidly as it has. But it certainly has, to the point you surely won't see any of the major league GOP candidates trumpeting the "marriage is one man and one woman" line in the 2016 campaign. The LDS church is free to not perform gay marriage ceremonies, but I am quite sure that they will do so "eventually". (Eventually is closer than never). There will be the same sort of revelation and divine awakening as has happened in the church's past in regards to African Americans and their place in the church, and church members will wonder what all the fuss was about. The dire predictions for society that were made about gay marriage (not to mention interracial marriage) have not come to pass, not at all.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The LDS church has had this position for quite a while now.<< Really? Is that why it's been church policy to evict gay students from private housing who attend BYU, and will continue to be LDS church policy? Even if you're a private citizen who wants to rent a privately owned apartment to BYU students, those students are required to only rent from "approved" locations, and therefore private owners agree to a contract with BYU to abide by certain rules. One of those is that if BYU asks the owner to evict a student, they have to do it. Here's an account of one gay student's awful experience at BYU, in response to this press conference. He sums it up perfectly: "Today and in recent years the church has supported housing and employment nondiscrimination legislation for LGBT people, provided that an exemption is made not only for religious institutions but for individuals with religious beliefs. In other words, they think it’s wrong for other people to discriminate but retain the right to do so themselves." https://thelordsuniversity.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/lds-press-conference-on-nondiscrimination-feels-like-a-slap-in-the-face/
Originally Posted By oc_dean <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://thelordsuniversity.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/lds-press-conference-on-nondiscrimination-feels-like-a-slap-in-the-face/">http://thelordsuniversity.word...he-face/</a> (just take out the 's' in https)
Originally Posted By utahjosh <The LDS church is free to not perform gay marriage ceremonies, but I am quite sure that they will do so "eventually". (Eventually is closer than never). There will be the same sort of revelation and divine awakening as has happened in the church's past in regards to African Americans and their place in the church, and church members will wonder what all the fuss was about.> I know that's what most outsiders think, and even some insiders. But it's just not the case. It's not going to happen.
Originally Posted By utahjosh You can't have sex with someone of the same sex and be a BYU student. You sign an agreement saying you won't do that (and a number of other things) when you enroll at BYU. The school has every right to expel the student for not honoring his agreement. And official BYU housing can follow those same rules.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The school has every right to expel the student for not honoring his agreement.<< But that's just it...the LDS Church is reserving the right to do the very things they just spoke out against. They just spoke in favor of a bill guaranteeing no housing discrimination, but they want to perform that discrimination. Let's replace LGBT with black or Jewish...see how that sounds. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/27/on-discrimination-the-mormon-church-gives-and-takes-away/?_r=0">http://takingnote.blogs.nytime...ay/?_r=0</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>We're one step away from forcing LDS temples to perform gay marriages.<< Oh please. Divorce and remarriage are so part of the culture that few bat an eye at it anymore, yet no one has forced the Catholic Church to marry divorced people.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>We're one step away from forcing LDS temples to perform gay marriages.<< Uh...what? That's like the textbook definition of a non-sequitur. Are we one step away from forcing LDS temples to perform marriages for non-Mormons? Were we one step away from LDS temples being forced to perform interracial marriages after Loving v. Virginia? There is no evidence whatsoever Mormons will be forced to perform gay marriages, and it is a complete deviation from the point: Mormons want to discriminate even as they denounce others for doing it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Should every church be required to have female pastors or ordain women? Is it okay for a church to only allow self-reported "faithful" members into its holy places? It it okay for a church to accept only those who agree to abide by certain rules to be ordained to a priesthood? Is it okay for a church school to only accept those who agree to abide by certain rules?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 A church can usually do as it likes. But is BYU officially an arm of the church? Does it accept any public money? Does it accept non-Mormon students? I don't know - I'm asking. Josh? ecdc?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "But it certainly has, to the point you surely won't see any of the major league GOP candidates trumpeting the "marriage is one man and one woman" line in the 2016 campaign." I think they will in the primaries. Then in the general they'll hope it goes away. Unless it's Santorum or Huckabee, God help us all.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Dabob, I can answer: Yes, BYU is a church-owned school. It has church-based mission statements. It requires students to follow an honor code inspired by the values of the church. It does not accept public money. It does accept non-mormon students, but they must abide by the "honor code" as well.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It does accept non-mormon students, but they must abide by the "honor code" as well." Jim McMahon would like to say hello.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Ha ha, it's very true that in the past star athletes were allowed to do what they wanted as the coaches and admin looked the other way. No organization has perfect people running the place. However, the current administration has placed a higher priority on the honor code for athletes.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I would suggest the "honor code" needs to be retired. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sltrib.com/sports/1982115-155/monson-after-brawl-byu-football-hardly">http://www.sltrib.com/sports/1...l-hardly</a>
