Originally Posted By sjhym333 I know that some will see this as a bashing. It really isn't meant to be. I was just sitting here reading about Blackberry laying off over 50% of its employees because their new phones havent been able to attract buyers away from iPhone and Android type phones. To me it is another example of a business being behind the 8 ball in terms of seeing the future. I think even the staunchest WDW fan would agree that WDW has been slow in adding new attractions that entice people to come back. I believe that Disney's business model is that since the resort has become the #1 vacation spot in the US, they don't need to worry about changing things up as often. Could this idea backfire? I know that there has been a lot of discussion here about Universal/Disney recently. I don't believe Universal is in a position to take on Disney enough to become a real threat, but I also know that a couple of other things are hanging out there... 1) Businesses, even large ones, often fail or shrink because of not seeing the future clearly. I think of companies like Borders, Blockbuster and now Blackberry just not seeing or planning for the future well. 2) A disaster - man made or other could really hurt Disney in ways that no one would expect. I applauded Disney and specifically Al Weiss for handling the sudden decrease of tourists after 9/11 amazingly well. Would that be true today? 3) What will the full effect of MyMagic+ be on WDW. I believe that MM+ will cater to the guest who stays on Disney property. Will it have a negative effect on non-Disney resort guests? I am truly interested in peoples opinions. I am a huge WDW fan. I would love to have a serious discussion on the future of WDW. Go ahead and chime in.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Comparing WDW with Blackberry is inaccurate. I do agree, though, with your general premise that companies with a strong customer base can sometimes make terrible missteps leading to their demise. In the case of WDW it seems to me that what we're mostly talking about sustainable long term growth rather than the ultimate downfall of the place. The problem with the kind of explosive capital investment that Eisner did during his tenure and currently taking place at Universal is that it takes a lot of cash to maintain it. You can't just build a fabulous theme park and let it sit. You have to keep it clean, hire workers, and continually add new attractions or features to keep audiences smiling and happy. Happy smiling guests spend more money. Fans hate hearing this, but the physical growth happening at Universal Florida isn't sustainable for Universal, Disney or any theme park operator. Which brings us to MM+. Yep it's an expensive and risky investment, but consider the operating costs compared to a new theme park. If the system works as planned Disney will not only significantly increase its ability to milk more money from customers but improve the guest experience as well. And everyone knows that the key to keeping any business alive is increased revenue.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros A agree that a lot of this hangs on how well the MyMagic+ system ends up working. At this point, the investment has been more than it would cost to open a new theme park, so they're clearly expecting big results from it. Given that we still know relatively little about it, considering how much has been done and how soon it will be affecting vacationers, it's still a huge question mark in my book As for the physical growth, I agree that adding hotels, parks, and other activities like they did from the mid-80's to the late-90's probably isn't sustainable, but I also don't think that the current stagnant approach is sustainable either. If you look back in DLR's and WDW's history, both places have historically added something pretty significant in the parks every year or so. DL constantly had new and revisited attractions being built; Epcot opened a new pavilion about once a year through the 80's; even MK continued to evolve. It's only been in recent years that we've see the approach of building one thing and expecting guests to visit multiple parks (and even then, it tends to be scheduled a few years apart, rather than roughly annually in the past). Perhaps they know something that we don't. Or maybe they're just content with what they have. When you only aim to meet expectations, you never exceed them, and that seems to be Disney's operating model during Iger's reign.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "DL constantly had new and revisited attractions being built...." Until DCA opened, that is. DL is essentially "done". Anything else added there will mean removing an existing attraction or feature, ie: Fantasy Faire. "Epcot opened a new pavilion about once a year through the 80's..." For the most park new [Disney] parks tend to add more during their first decade than they do in the years following. "...even MK continued to evolve." Do you think so? I lot of people seem to disagree with this. "It's only been in recent years that we've see the approach of building one thing and expecting guests to visit multiple parks (and even then, it tends to be scheduled a few years apart, rather than roughly annually in the past). " Which is exactly what I'm saying. Disney has to balance capital investment and guest expectations with long term financial growth (because you know, stock holders). That's a relatively easy task when a property is new and the hottest thing in town, but it's unrealistic to expect that kind of momentum to be sustained forever. I would not want George Kalogridis' job.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Until DCA opened, that is. DL is essentially "done". Anything else added there will mean removing an existing attraction or feature, ie: Fantasy Faire.<< DL has essentially been 'done' since the mid-70's. The only additions since then that didn't take out attractions were Splash Mountain, Videopolis (now Fantasyland Theater), and Toontown. Yet through most of those years, they continued to freshen the attraction roster and update and replace things; since DCA, it seems like there has been very little interest in adding 'big' attractions to DL (only Buzz Lightyear and Nemo Subs; arguably the Space Mountain redux, but that wasn't planned). They have done a lot with quiet corners here and there, but overall it seems like they have no intention to add much to the park; if they really wanted to, there's plenty of space backstage that's currently occupied by the stables that could be reconfigured into park space, connecting Critter Country and Toontown. Now that DCA has pretty stable footing, it will be interesting to see how the tide shifts (and what ever happened to that "it's definitely going to happen" rumor of a alleyway behind Main Street to help with crowd circulation?) >>"Epcot opened a new pavilion about once a year through the 80's..." For the most park new [Disney] parks tend to add more during their first decade than they do in the years following.<< Other parks have added a lot in their first decade, but I don't think they're really comparable to Epcot's additions, especially when you consider that the park was essentially a full-day park (or really darn close to it) when it first opened; MGM, DAK and DCA all need(ed) significant additions to reach full-day status. Looking at the additions, I would say that Epcot had more additions than the US parks built since then, and the additions tended to be more substantial on average. Here's a list of the attraction and large-scale 'spectaculars' added to the parks in their first decade: Epcot 1982-1992: Journey Into Imagination Horizons Laserphonic Fantasy Morocco Captain EO (replacement of Magic Journeys) Living Seas Illuminations (update of Laserphonic Fantasy) Norway(with Maelstrom) Wonders of Life (with Body Wars and Cranium Command) Surprise in the Skies Various changes to exhibits and walk-throughs Disney-MGM Studios 1989-1999: Star Tours Separation of walking tour and tram tour Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground MuppetVision Sorcery in the Sky Voyage of the Little Mermaid Tower of Terror (with Sunset Blvd) Fantasmic! (replacement for Sorcery in the Sky) Various stage shows and exhibit updates for current film releases Disney's Animal Kingdom 1998-2008: Kali River Rapids Maharaja Jungle Trek Dino-Rama (with Triceratops Spin and Primeval Whirl) Expedition Everest Nemo musical (replaced Tarzan Rocks, which replaced original Jungle Book show) Various re-branding of the Discovery River Boats Disney's California Adventure 2001-2011: Who Wants to Be a Millionaire: Play It! Tower of Terror Monsters Inc (redressing of Superstar Limo) Toy Story Midway Mania World of Color Little Mermaid Various special events (Rockin' the Bay, X Games, etc) >>"...even MK continued to evolve." Do you think so? I lot of people seem to disagree with this.<< MK continued to add a lot of stuff in its early years, arguably because it wasn't quite complete on opening day. Like DL after DCA, additions slowed down after Epcot, but still continued here and there until the early 00's, when additions basically stopped completely. Magic Kingdom 1971-1981: If You Had Wings Tom Sawyer Island Swan Boats Richard F Irvine riverboat Pirates of the Caribbean Magic Carpet 'Round the World (replaced America the Beautiful CircleVision) Star Jets Space Mountain Mission to Mars (replaced Flight to the Moon) Carousel of Progress PeopleMover Big Thunder
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "DL has essentially been 'done' since the mid-70's. The only additions since then that didn't take out attractions were Splash Mountain, Videopolis (now Fantasyland Theater), and Toontown." You forgot Indiana Jones.
Originally Posted By planodisney It seems as though plans are afoot for DL. I think another large investment into DCA is priority for Anaheim, which I think is really smart, but all signs point to a major Star Wars attraction in TL and they seem eager to find the right IP to place in the Big Thunder Ranch area but haven't found it yet. I think we are going to see some pretty massive expansions at both resorts between now and the end of the decade.
Originally Posted By Fantasmicmagic82 I agree with everything on here. I have put many of post on here about this subject. WDW as for my experience each has been really great all the years I have visited. WDW 1982 was the 1st experience I saw EPCOT Center 3 months from it opening and was excited to see what was coming, From 1985 to 1993 I went to WDW and EPCOT mainly then MGM studios 4 times during those visits. It was all new each year I went. Last big visit was 1997. I stayed at FW for 10 days camping out and finally saw Discovery Island for the 1st and last. I didn't even know about AK being built till I was leaving on the bus going back to the airport. I did not get to go back to WDW till 2002 and 2003. It was nice and it had a few new attractions. TOT and Light Motor Action and RNRRC. For me in my own opinion Disney made the mistake of trying to overtake the attractions of the whole state of Florida. Their mistake was AK . It's nice. But there are many Zoos around America that do that and just do that. And do it well. If Disney would have taken the money it took to build AK and the operating cost of the last 17 years and added to the other 3 parks and kept up up with what they had They would still be in a good position or even better than today. For me Disney was a place to get away have some fun and actually relax. But it also forgot the people my age they went all those years that don't have kids. But I just don't care to not at Disney anymore. Life has change for me new experiences and thing beyond WDW. When Disney gets away from the BBB and the Princess thinking and adds a Star Wars section to the Studios.I will go back. But until then Disney is like going to your local theme park right down the street and you get to a certain point in life and ask yourself " Is it really worth my hard earned money and time to keep coming back"? For me right now Disney isn't. I moved to Florida to be near WDW in 2005 and in those 8 years. i have been 3 times visiting. The Studios for 3 visits and EPCOT for 1 half day visit. Just need something for me to go back for. And when I do go back. It will be my last visit. Not because I hate WDW . It's because it the one thing I have always wanted to do in style stay on property in a Premium Resort and do it like I have since I was 18 yo.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>You forgot Indiana Jones.<< You're right! How on earth did I forget that? Still, even Indy did take out a chunk of the Jungle Cruise for the queue. Even counting Indy though, that's still 4 'new' additions in the last 35+ years that didn't require removing another attraction; when you consider how many major new attractions and attraction redo's they had since then (Big Thunder, new Fantasyland, and TL98 all stick out in my mind) it's a wonder that they've done next to nothing significant in the last 15 years in DL I agree with plano that they are probably planning something major coming up soon. They've had to focus on DCA for so long that I think they're interested in looking back to DL for possibilities. I don't have any idea what or how big it will be, but I would expect at least one major attraction to come out of it (and this is entirely speculation based on my part)
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I've had a long-term stability idea for EPCOT, but I will remain in non-disclosure mode so Disney can hire me to implement.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I went to the Disney Family Museum this weekend to check out the Tyrus Wong exhibit and decided to visit the main galleries again since they were included with admission. Toward the end of the main exhibit walk through there is a small nod toward EPCOT Center as envision by Walt with maps, concept drawings, and a video presentation featuring Mr. Disney outlining his plans for transportation, housing, and industry. The man was an ambitious visionary, and as nice as EPCOT is today, it's not even close to what he was dreaming of when he passed away.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance I've got to go there when we come to San Francisco. Would it hold kid's attention, Hans?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I think that there's enough to hold kids' attention there. There are a lot of videos and neat old artifacts, in addition to the typical photos and text that you'd find at any museum. There's a ton of stuff there, so you'd probably have to rush through various parts of it to keep them entertained, but I think that it would be able to hold the attention of kids older than about 8
Originally Posted By TP2000 WDW needs rides, desperately in most parks, that is widely agreed. Heck, DHS only has SIX (6) rides in the whole park, and it's been open for 25 years. DAK is in the same boat with only seven rides. That's pathetic, and the comparison of attractions between Magic Kingdom and Disneyland Park is also pathetic. But what WDW also needs to do is to lift the heavy veil of corporate blandness that settled over everything 10 or 15 years ago. The whole property is just so monolithic "DISNEY" that even the tourists are just calling it that "Let's go to Disney", "We are in Disney", etc. The signage, the nomenclature, the uniformity, the 5 years behind the times sensibility, all implemented by rather dull people wearing tacky untucked "camp shirts" who spend too much time in air conditioned cubicles. It's infected nearly the entire property, and you can smell it when you step foot onto property. Would it kill WDW management to show just a hint of personality and charm and uniqueness, instead of the glazed-eye "MAGICAL. DREAMS. DISNEY." mush they regurgitate year after year? If they don't break out of the corporate borg mindset, that bland experience is what will kill them just as much as the fact that their amusement parks only build a new ride once per decade.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN More than rides, WDW needs better maintenance, themed environments and better trained staff. Plus what they have needs huge upgrades in technology and show. The entire complex is stuck in the 20th century. No innovation anywhere.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I've got to go there when we come to San Francisco. Would it hold kid's attention, Hans?" Absolutely. The whole thing is very "Disney". There are lots of interactive exhibits and everyone gawks at the huge Disneyland model: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://rockinmama.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Disneyland-Model-1024x680.jpg">http://rockinmama.net/wp-conte...x680.jpg</a> The setting is pretty awesome too. The museum is in the middle of a national park with views of the bay and the Golden Gate bridge. Lucas Arts is within walking distance and their beautiful campus grounds are open to the public. "More than rides, WDW needs better maintenance, themed environments and better trained staff. Plus what they have needs huge upgrades in technology and show." This.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>>Absolutely. The whole thing is very "Disney". There are lots of interactive exhibits and everyone gawks at the huge Disneyland model<<< Sounds a bit museum boring to me, maybe because I am not a kid interested in video games. But being Disney related, I'm sure it would be worth at least one visit in my lifetime.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN Which makes me think... interactive activities are "very Disney"? Where is the innovation in that??
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Plus what they have needs huge upgrades in technology and show.>> So true - and frankly, it's going to take years to bring WDW out of the 20th century. They way overbuilt the place back in the 1990s, and now they have a sprawling mess of an infrastructure that will take billions to update. They expanded to fast, and now they can't keep up with all the changes necessary to keep the place fresh and new. Each of the parks could use a DCA-style makeover, but when you have four entire theme parks that require huge investment, where do you even start? My personal wish - start with Future World at Epcot. Give us a 21st Century look into what the 22nd Century might bring. Unify the themes across the pavilions again like it was in the 80s - with a vision of the future that is realistic, but visionary and upbeat. Heck, shut down Future World if you have to for a couple years and just run World Showcase. It's not like Disney makes much revenue off of single-day tickets anyway - and I assume folks would still come for afternoons and dinner in World Showcase. Obviously not gonna happen, but I can dream. At the very least, they need to announce something BIG sometime soon. It's been far to long since WDW did something revolutionary that really knocked everyone's socks off. Maybe it will be whatever they finally do for Avatar - or maybe Star Wars. But whatever it is, folks need to be WOW'd.
