Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 This isn't the freshest of news, but I'll post it anyway for the benefit of those who don't read here regularly or don't know. The WDW Resort (motto: if you want Christmas, you're going to have to pay extra for it, bah humbug) has announced that all buffets will be sticking it to you during this season of giving. Simply put, the Food and Beverage folks (How's it hanging, Dieter?) are adding a holiday markup of $4 a person for anyone daring to dine during the Thanksgiving Weekend and the two weeks surrounding Christmas and New Year's ... and look for the same come Easter if not Valentine's Day too. They want to push their profit margins up -- as if $150 rooms at the 'value' resorts aren't enough ... and the extra $45 a head for X-Mas Parties aren't enough ... so you wanna eat, you pay more. Sure, some apologist is actually going to point out that other restaurants around the country do this, which is correct but besides the point. And those places generally do so just on the holiday and usually offer a special menu too. This is blatant gouging and it's another reason to not visit WDW over the holiday, if the crazy crowds aren't enough. The sad thing is what is happening to Disney Dining ... and this is emblematic of it ... so is the 'new' DDP ... the DDE surcharge ... the every four-month price increases ... the fewer choices ... the dumbing down of menus. Maybe Dieter ain't doing such a good job of exceeding guests expectations, unless you expect to be screwed by a Mouse for the holidays! Discuss.
Originally Posted By hopemax And the "holiday" dates don't even match the dates for the resort holiday season. The DDP doesn't have a "holiday" surcharge. Probably can't, because it doesn't affect all restaurants. But it still feels like a "penalty" for those not on the DDP. If EVERYONE were affected, I'd probably scowl but live with the "everyone else does it." But again, I wonder if the economy goes into another post-9/11 style freefall, who is going to eat at the Disney restaurants, because locals will have given up that habit a long time ago, with all the hoops.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 ^^Hopemax, we're already in a bad recession right now (possibly steaming toward an outright depression) but since it's only affecting the poor, working and middle classes ... and because the major companies are rolling in profits (because they are screwing their workers and sending jobs to India etc ...) and because Wall Street is happy ... and because our Prez refuses to admit it, well, we all pretend that it isn't real. But it is.
Originally Posted By hopemax Oh, I know, but it doesn't seem like it has hit the people going to WDW...yet, unlike after 9/11, when people DID stop going. Although, it's interesting to read some boards and see the influx of "I had to cancel my trip..." threads and the "I just got the heating bill, I'm afraid I'm going to have to cancel my trip" posts.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad <<<The sad thing is what is happening to Disney Dining ... and this is emblematic of it ... so is the 'new' DDP ... the DDE surcharge ... the every four-month price increases ... the fewer choices ... the dumbing down of menus.>>> I AM SICK AND TIRED...BUT MOSTLY SICK OF THE ENTIRE WDW DINING "THING" !!! People of the world, Dining at WDW is a RIP OFF. I got an email stating that any use of the Disney Dining Experience Card will add an automatic 18% gratuity at any sit down restaurant in WDW. I really don't care but it was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I really don't care about the money. I always tip MORE than 18% anyway, but it is childish. If the gratuity is included, I don't add to it. I get hit with auto-gratuity anyway as my immediate family is 6 kids and 2 adults and although, the youngest is an infant, somehow HE COUNTS! Money, Money, Money... Where is the magic? It's not the money, it's the principle. You guys in charge of WDW Dining have bosses in California to impress. I get that. I understand that. Maybe if you increase the annual take by %10 someone will notice and you'll be up for the next big promotion. But you are doing it at the expense of losing life long loyal customers. It has a large LONG TERM downside. But what do you care? You will be gone on to the next big thing by the time people choose to skip WDW Dining. SO what? "We can always lower the price, increase menu items again, dial it back and the customers will come back." Not this one. It is very sad that I have to finally come to grips with the fact that it's not about "Magic" it's about "Money." I first realized that something was wrong a couple years ago or maybe a year ago when we booked lunch at Cinderella's Royal Table. I forget what I paid, but I recall that when I booked, and PRE-PAID, I was told that kids under 2, eat free. LIES, ALL LIES. IMHO, kids under 2 eat free means kids order off the kids menu and are not charged for it. Oh no. My then 20 month old was given a simple, small, plain bowl of buttered noodles and water. I am not kiidding. I am quite serious. My OTHER 4 kids were given a sword or a wand depending on gender. Well of course my 20 month old wants one. Did he get one? Yes, but only after I was forced to pay another $20 bucks or whatever for a kids meal so I could simply get the 50 cent plastic sword. LOSERS, the lot of 'em...I am STILL steaming over this. It's a broken system and no one cares. People, get smart, ask about what kids under 2 eat free means at Cinderella's Royal Table. They won't pick MY pocket again in the ICON location that hosts Cinderella's Royal Table. Now, as I stroll through the World Showcase I see this thing called "Kid's Pick" and as we eat out at every meal I begin to notice that the kids meal is the same with one single item at each restaurant that MIGHT be a little different. Intersting. Next, what used to have many items, allowing each chef to showcase himself or herself, the menu's have like 5 entres at the most some less. I am guessing, but those chef's down there have got to be hateing these ridiculous teeny tiny menu's. It would be an insult to me if I were a chef. Thanks Disney Dining, but I'll skip your money grab and drive over to City Walk where they still treat people like adults and provide a superior choice. I mean come on, what restaurant (outside of WDW) that MAKES THE INSANE amounts of MONEY that most of the WDW restaurants make... has only 6 items on the menu? "Oh here you go little fella'... enjoy these noodles with butter. What? You want a sword? Well if mommy and daddy want to shell out another 20 bucks you can have one. No? I know it only costs us 50 cents. Magic? Well how about this, you just chow down on those noodles and just tell mom and dad to 'Have a Magical Day.' " WDW Dining, sure you are getting richer, and making huge numbers that will perhaps impress your bosses out in CA, but long term you guys are losing your MOST loyal, MOST out spoken in a positive manner customers. WE ARE DISAPPOINTED, and it's to the point that I am beginning to look ACROSS TOWN, which hurts me even MORE. I never ever thought I would post anything negative about WDW. I feel like I've lost a life long friend.
Originally Posted By jonvn "has only 6 items on the menu?" Most higher end dining places have very few items on the menu. And really, there is no such thing as magic. It's a business. It always has been. If people would simply stop pretending it was some sort of magical fairyland, they'd not be so let down when it finally hits them that they are simply there to suck you dry of money. If you enjoy what they offer for your money, good. If not, you turn it down. Just like any other business.
Originally Posted By MPierce Remember when some airports, and business's charged a quarter to get in a stall. I wonder if WDW has looked into that. I think it would fit right in with their plan. >> Money, Money, Money... Where is the magic? << In the Mouse's pocket. >> AM SICK AND TIRED...BUT MOSTLY SICK OF THE ENTIRE WDW DINING "THING" !!! << I think more people are starting to feel this way. >> It is very sad that I have to finally come to grips with the fact that it's not about "Magic" it's about "Money." << Sucks the Magic right out doesn't it. >> And really, there is no such thing as magic. It's a business. It always has been. Penn, and Teller would agree with you jonvn. It's all just an illusion. However a lot of people get a special feeling when they go to a Disney Park. That has been promoted, and expressed as Magical. So for the people that get that special feeling they are perfectly entitled to call it Magic. After all Magic is merely a word to express something you can't understand. Yes, it has always been, and always will be a business. It's just that it seems so blatantly true now. The Magic (illusion) has started to evaporate. >> ^^Hopemax, we're already in a bad recession right now (possibly steaming toward an outright depression) but since it's only affecting the poor, working and middle classes ... and because the major companies are rolling in profits (because they are screwing their workers and sending jobs to India etc ...) and because Wall Street is happy ... and because our Prez refuses to admit it, well, we all pretend that it isn't real. << When my wife starts to complain tonight about my hour long tirade about how America is being destroyed from within by GREEDY corporations I will tell her she has Spirit to thank for bringing it up.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Penn, and Teller would agree with you jonvn. " I think Penn and Teller are fabulous. "However a lot of people get a special feeling when they go to a Disney Park." Well, it's unfortunate. I don't like seeing someone becoming disillusioned like this. It's sad. "It's just that it seems so blatantly true now. " It's always been pretty blatantly true. It's just a matter of thresholds. People seem to want to believe in Disney marketing, and really, it's marketing. Walt Disney used to tell stories that made things a bit not what they really were so he could sell his product. Go, have fun, but be realistic. There are ways to do this without having to get hit over the head with the fact that they are fleecing you.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Seriously, if you are on a budget, these sit down buffets and character meals are not for you. I remember vacationing at WDW with my family decades ago. We were on a budget, and you can bet we didn't step foot in a sit down restaurant. WDW has always been incredibly expensive when it comes to getting as much it can from a captive audience. That's the reality. I think people have been spoiled a bit during the past several years when WDW actually became a little more affordable in the aftermath of 9/11. There were quite a few hotel discounts and the dining plans were actually a good deal in comparison to the plans offered in the late 80s and 90s. Now that the foreign tourists are back spending the big bucks, price increases have accelerated in kind and the deals are going away.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I got an email stating that any use of the Disney Dining Experience Card will add an automatic 18% gratuity at any sit down restaurant in WDW. I really don't care but it was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. >>> I don't think this part of your post has much to do with the rest. I don't see how this is part of Disney trying to extract the most money out of people, as the gratuity goes to the servers, not the company. If anything, a higher gratuity means a bit LESS money for the company, as they have to eat the discount rate on the gratuity for anyone using a credit card (I'm assuming that Disney does this, as it's common elsewhere in the food service industry). Rather, I would guess that this was done in response to too many people on the DDE tipping based on the discounted rate and not the original rate. This creates a situation where the server might think (and rightfully so depending on how often it happens) that as soon as they see the DDE, they know to expect 20% less tip than they otherwise would get. And assuming that the 18% tip is based on the discounted amount, this is ensuring only a 14.5% tip on the list price, which I think is very reasonable for the servers to expect (assuming good service is provided). And I don't mean to detract from the rest of what you said - I only mean to point out that I don't think the 18% gratuity on DDE use has anything to do with it.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Anybody try to take a family of 4 to a baseball game lately?>> We went to see the Rockies last year. They had a promotion were some pretty decent seats only cost about $12 each. Now that they are NL champs I expect that will be history.
Originally Posted By fkurucz << WDW has always been incredibly expensive when it comes to getting as much it can from a captive audience. >> Which is why we prefer DLR. During the off season you can get a room at a crosswalk hotel for under $100. Plenty of restaurants nearby, and soon there will be many more when Garden Walk opens.
Originally Posted By dennis-in-ct <<< I never ever thought I would post anything negative about WDW. I feel like I've lost a life long friend. >> Very good post. I can relate. I don't mind paying more to be at WDW - I expect it. But when it turns to outright gouging and I feel taken advantage of, then I have a problem. You are a DVC owner. As others have said here on the boards, if you all got together, you would have one very powerful voice.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Wow DVC Dad, how do you really feel? I don't blame you at all though. Not with all the kids. Things have become all about money, and I think I could live with it, if Disney still held itself to the standards it once did. But Disney doesn't. And then it nickels and dimes you to death. I still love WDW. But when my 'non-Disney' friends talk about going once or twice and having no desire to return, I understand it now ... I didn't used to.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Most higher end dining places have very few items on the menu.>> I've been to some amazing four and five star dining locations from Boston to Las Vegas, from Honolulu to Paris. I've never seen one with six entrees on the menu. <<And really, there is no such thing as magic. It's a business. It always has been. If people would simply stop pretending it was some sort of magical fairyland, they'd not be so let down when it finally hits them that they are simply there to suck you dry of money. >> You know I put that comment about the magic in my post just to see if you'd write the above. Jon, you're becoming predictable. Why don't you surprise me? <<If you enjoy what they offer for your money, good. If not, you turn it down. Just like any other business.>> Yes. And if you still enjoy a great deal of their offerings, you go and enjoy them. But you also let Disney know where you feel it is going wrong, so maybe ... just maybe ... they'll improve. It does happen.
Originally Posted By jonvn There are other things in life to do. Go on a cruise to Alaska. That's really great fun.
Originally Posted By dshyates "And really, there is no such thing as magic. It's a business. It always has been. If people would simply stop pretending it was some sort of magical fairyland, they'd not be so let down when it finally hits them that they are simply there to suck you dry of money." Jon don't be so condescending. People know it's a business. It always has been. But we remember when they were interested in earning the money by providing high quality family entertainment. Now it high dollar mass produced product. The place is packed and they are selling plush by the barge loads so I can't say they are doing it wrong. I simply have less interest in giving them my money. Really they can do what they want. Add a plush and pin shop at the end of all their thinly cartoonized mad mice.
Originally Posted By jonvn "People know it's a business. It always has been. But we remember when they were interested in earning the money by providing high quality family entertainment." Honestly, I am not sure people do realize it's a business. I understand the feelings here, because I get worked up over what I think are crappy attractions, too, as well as the lousy stores they are now providing. But, I just don't see this as LIES ALL LIES, but just business decisions and I step back and watch it slowly sink. I feel sad, but we see people defending all sorts of seriously bad things they are doing, and paying through the nose for an inferior product. There is going to come a point for everyone when the place just isn't worth visiting anymore. And that is a shame. As they make the place over into something less and less special, it's going to creep more and more into the consciousness of the public that the place is a rip off and offers little more than what you can get many other places. For some here, it's become apparent now, and it's just unfortunate. And I do feel sad for them. But there is little I can do but vote with my wallet, and do something else with my money. But this has been going on for a long time now. I have said certain things are bad ideas, and gave reasons. I'm told I'm wrong. OK. But as I said, it finally starts to hit home when it finally dawns on someone that it's truly falling apart. It might just be that I went through all this a long time ago already. In the early to mid 90s, I sounded like a lot of other folks do. Pretty angry about what was going on. I'm still attached to this stuff, and sometimes get annoyed, but mostly, it's a shrug of the shoulders, and that's it. I just try to enjoy what it is for what it is. I think Disney as what it used to be is gone, it's not coming back, but is even getting worse. This is a constant disapointment but there is nothing I can do about it. It is just sad to see people be disillusioned.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<When my wife starts to complain tonight about my hour long tirade about how America is being destroyed from within by GREEDY corporations I will tell her she has Spirit to thank for bringing it up.>> Good. Without opening a can of worms, which I will anyway, I never realized how many folks think democracy must equate with 100% pure capitalism instead of SOCIAL capitalism. You know, adding some humanity to the equation. But as I spent $50 to fill up my car with gas -- that would have been about $17 in late 2001 -- I can't help but feel good that ExxonMobil can make a $10 billion quarterly profit. I'm sure the extra gas prices aren't affecting the single working mom making $23,000 a year or the family of six living one paycheck away from foreclosure ... but, hey, at least we're getting those evildoers over there!
