Originally Posted By Disneylandfan85 On the latest Dateline Disneyland article at MiceChat, it laments how the Rivers of America, a piece of Disneyland history since day one, will be forever compromised by the impending Star Wars land and, among other things, what a big slap in the face it is to Walt Disney and everything he, the company and Disneyland all stand for. My biggest worry, however, isn't so much that the Rivers of America will be closed for a long time or even that it will be impacted, it is that one of its major attractions in particular will be changed for all time now and forever after: namely, the Mark Twain. Here's what the article said, and I quote: "As far as the Twain is concerned, rumors have begun trickling out that Disneyland intends on turning the Mark Twain into a tea time dining experience with Princess Tiana while the River is closed for refurbishment. While Disney hasn’t officially announced it, such a plan wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility. Similar rumors circulated in recent years about the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World having similar desires for its Liberty Belle Riverboat and when the fabled Discovery Bay was still planned to take over Big Thunder Ranch in the 1990s, Disney told the Orange County Register that both the Columbia and Mark Twain would be docked and permanently converted into restaurants. So, should the Princess Tiana tea time experience happen later this year and become popular, it could potentially be the death knell for the Mark Twain Riverboat as a functional vessel." That's what has got me concerned, that the Mark Twain's days as an attraction could already be numbered. I really hope this is not true. The article goes on to say, and again I quote... "The thread of hope here is that Disney has officially promised the river and all of its attractions will eventually reopen. Thematically, rumors are circulating that the River will come back with major scenic enhancements. Still, whispers persist that some features may not return. It wouldn’t be a problem for Disney to wait until mid-2017, just before the River reopens, to say that the project grew during construction and more of the river, Island, or a ship were lost as part of the project’s evolution. They’d have an excuse that nobody could argue with and it would be too late for fans to protest or the public react – the damage would already be done." It says there's hope, but the way it is written doesn't sound particularly assuring, does it?
Originally Posted By doombuggy It's just internet rumors Think about it With all that stuff closed and not running it's that much labor And time For maintenance that they are saving tons of money. The money saved on two performances of fantasmic a night alone I wouldn't doubt are making their accountants happy
Originally Posted By Disneylandfan85 >>Think about it With all that stuff closed and not running it's that much labor And time For maintenance that they are saving tons of money. The money saved on two performances of fantasmic a night alone I wouldn't doubt are making their accountants happy<< So you're saying that the rumor of Mark Twain as restaurant and not attraction would make accountants happy?
Originally Posted By sjdimon Anything that changes from a COST CENTER to a REVENUE CENTER would make the Accountants happy. That's why so many attractions have been shuttered in favor of SHOPS and RESTAURANTS (think Penny Arcade (becoming an enlarged Candy Palace); Mission to Mars (becoming Redd Rockets); etc. In addition, Disney has a history of shutting down a number of attractions any time that any new attraction(s) will be coming online (e.g. Motor Boats and Fantasyland Autopia when Toon Town opened). So - it's not without precedence that the days of the River Boats may soon me history (although I sure hope not)! I hope that there are enough folks still at Imagineering and above that realize that Disneyland is a sum of the whole park - and that the Rivers of America and all of the River Boats (Colombia, Mark Twain, Canoes and Rafts to the Island) - as well as the Fantasmic Show are all just parts of what makes Disneyland such a fantastic experience.
Originally Posted By doombuggy You are missing the obvious flaws in this MiceChat rumor. If it were true where would the boat be sitting at the regular loading area? Just sitting there propped up on blocks in a dry riverbed. There are only two slips for those ships to sit in One in the front one in the back If it was docked in front they would have to build a whole new ramp.
Originally Posted By 9oldmen >>; Mission to Mars (becoming Redd Rockets); << Redd Rockets is right next to what used to be the "Space Place" seasonal fast food restaurant, with the Space Mountain FastPass machines where the service window used to be. The "net" number of major food facilities in Tomorrowland remains the same as before.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I don't worry about the Twain too much. It's a iconic opening day attraction, and what's the point in having a river at all if nothing rides on it? You might as well just fill it in (and/or give even more space to SW Land) if there aren't going to be any rivercraft. I do worry about the Columbia, though. They only run that on busy days as it is (which has been true for years), and running both big ships on a shortened river may be problematic, unless they slow them down. On the full-size river it times out just about right for one to be loading/unloading while the other is running; on a shorter river, you might get regular backups waiting for the other to depart. That happened to me in December on the still-full-sized river just because the Twain must have been loading somewhat slowly while we were on the Columbia. They stopped us opposite the TSI suspension bridge while they waited for the Twain to be ready to leave. They presumably COULD make them run more slowly, which would also stretch out the time on a newly shortened river, and I hope they do. I'm a big fan of the Columbia.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Although I'm not terribly concerned about the big boats going away, I also wonder if we'll ever see regular dual-boat operation again. From an operations and maintenance standpoint, the Twain is much easier to run. It's level boarding dock is ADA compliant, and the steam engine is operated and maintained by the same crews that run the trains. If only one boat is going to remain in operations for guests, it will be the Twain The Columbia is an integral part of Fantasmic!, and I'm sure that the Entertainment team wouldn't let it go. It's one of their favorite things to hold over their WDW counterparts. The worst-case scenario here is that it is only used during Fantasmic! and is not available to guests (potentially except when the Twain is being refurbished) In all likelihood, it will be the canoes that go away. They have low capacity and require a lot of CM manpower to operate, but also add a lot of charm and life to the river so hopefully they'll stay around As for a dining/character experience onboard a boat during the river refurbishment, I'm all for it, provided the river actually has water in it and that it returns to normal service when everything reopens. I think it's a clever way to provide something in an otherwise-dead part of the park, and having water in the river would at least add to the scenery in that area
Originally Posted By smd4 >>>From an operations and maintenance standpoint, the Twain is much easier to run. <<< Well...Steam engines and boilers are WAY more costly to operate (they are massively inefficient) and maintain compared to diesel engines. Also, the Operating Engineer that is required to operate the machinery gets paid WAY more than regular CMs. BUT...I agree the boats going away anytime soon.
Originally Posted By Disneylandfan85 >>BUT...I agree the boats going away anytime soon.<< So you agree that the boats are going away soon or not?
Originally Posted By berol There wasn't a 'going away soon' post to agree with, so it's "not." I was thinking they'd slow the boat(s) and add more things to see along the river to make the slower speed work better.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Well...Steam engines and boilers are WAY more costly to operate (they are massively inefficient)<< True, but don't they already have all of the steam engine crew on staff for the railroads? Does adding one more steam engine (going from 4-5 to 5-6) really add that much more cost to their operations?
Originally Posted By smd4 I agree the boats *aren't* going away anytime soon. Ferret, it's not just the cost of the staffing, it's the cost to maintain the boilers and the engines. With the diesels in the Columbia, you can just go to Pep Boys and get any parts you may need (for the most part). That just isn't the case for the boiler or steam engines on the Twain. Any parts that wear out on the Twain need to be custom made. Even small parts can cost many hundreds, even thousands of dollars.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I'd be shocked if the Mark Twain went away. I just can't see that happening. I am hopeful that they will do a great job of adding some new things to see on the journey, and moving at a slower speed wouldn't be a bad thing at all.
Originally Posted By monorailblue Unspecified limited-time Mark Twain and Columbia experiences are coming to Disneyland later this year--CONFIRMED: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/01/guests-to-experience-disneyland-park-attractions-in-new-ways-throughout-2016/">http://disneyparks.disney.go.c...ut-2016/</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I think these limited-time things is a great idea, rather than just closing them.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Uh oh, Miceage is going to have a conniption! They are worried sick these limited time offerings will be the death of the Mark Twain/Columbia. I on the other hand think it's neat they will be doing something unique and providing a different way to experience these attractions while they are down.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Uh oh, Miceage is going to have a conniption!" But is this a bad thing? "I on the other hand think it's neat they will be doing something unique and providing a different way to experience these attractions while they are down." I think it's awesome.
Originally Posted By monorailblue Someone had said somewhere the was a rumor of using temporary dams to keep the riverfront partially fiilled--a la what they did with the castle moat at WDW during Central Plaza reconstruction. If they could pull that off with Twain at Frontierland Landing and Columbia at Fowler's Harbor, both could easily be used in their stationary (not stationery) state.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt The Jungle Cruise is getting a rehab? Thank goodness! When I was there last summer all of the animals literally looked like they'd been there since the 60s.
