Originally Posted By cmpaley >>>>Mecha is considered a radical organization of kooks by most of the latino people I know (whether they are here with or without papers).<< Then why do they follow them?<< Who says they do? The really big march that I remember a few months ago was put on by more mainstream groups than Mecha. But let's look at the situation objectively: You have one hate group (the Minutemen) coming into your town to demonstrate their hatred of the kind of person you are. You have another hate group (the Mechistas) coming in to counter the Minutemen. REGARDLESS of their extreme views, you're more likely to back the hate-group that is there to counter the hate-group that hates YOU! It's called "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." It's not logical, but it's how people think when they get in large groups. >>Why do they vote for former Mechistas like Villaraigosa?<< Probably because he was better than the opposition? What stupid groups a person belonged to in college is irrelevant if their current body of work doesn't reflect that stupidity. Or should I bring up Senator George "Macaca" Allen's youthful interest in Confederate flags and nooses? >>Look how hard Arnold had to struggle because he had relatives who might have been WW2 Nazis.<< And yet, he's absolutely adored by the extreme right wing. Actually, I'm sure that the nazi past is to his credit among some right-wingers.
Originally Posted By fkurucz ¿buey? ¿Que quiere decir "buey?" Yo sé que es un guëy, pero nunca me han dicho buey. Buey is an ox guey is a corruption of buey as in "que me ves guey". Its not a real word.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>And yet, he's absolutely adored by the extreme right wing.<< You couldn't be more wrong. The Christian right absolutely detests him. He is pro choice, pro-gay, etc.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer As I understand it, Minutemen (current version, not the historical version) basically were formed to be a type of Neighborhood Watch program for the Border Patrol, to be extra eyes and ears. They support the program since they want to see the current laws to be enforced, just like a local community forms a Neighborhood Watch to catch folks stealing, and committing other crimes... Lets look at the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps Pledge.... <a href="http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/mmpledge.php" target="_blank">http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/ mmpledge.php</a> >>The Minuteman Pledge A Minuteman upholds the Constitution of the United States of America, and reveres the American Creed that unites us as one people, our Declaration of Independence. A Minuteman knows well America is a nation of immigrants, and realization of our national promise has always relied upon those who come to America from other countries to participate fully, with their children and descendants, as loyal and law-abiding U.S. citizens. A Minuteman believes that just as ethnicity, race, religion and all such factors are incidental and do not affect our God-given, constitutional equality as American citizens, such factors are also irrelevant in the debate over illegal immigration. There is no tolerance among Minutemen for racism or bigotry - E Pluribus Unum - Out of Many, One. A Minuteman believes in a strong, safe and secure America that begins with borders open only to those who have a legal right to enter, and who have met all the lawful criteria to cross into our territory established by the sovereign American people. Minutemen vow to use every legal means at our disposal to assist law enforcement authorities in identifying and apprehending those who violate our borders, whether they are illegally trafficking people, weapons, arms, property, sexual slaves or any other contraband. Minutemen vow to report to the proper authorities any business entity which knowingly recruits, facilitates or employs people who have entered America illegally, or which cooperates in any commercial activity which involves contraband smuggling or marketing of persons, products or material. Minutemen promise to raise our voices -- on cellular phones along the borders of America and in the halls of Congress -- in the defense of the rule of law. The American people are firm but fair, and we share their great compassion for the many powerless victims of cruel, illegal human trafficking and labor exploitation. But we also support our citizens' adamant rejection of the blatant disregard for our laws and ordered liberty represented by the U.S. government's failure to secure our borders, enforce our nation's sovereignty and end the flood of illegal trafficking into American territory. I vow before God and my fellow Americans that these principles guide my actions as a Minuteman. "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty..." And so I will stand watch on America's borders and in her sovereign interest until relieved from duty by my fellow countrymen. << It doesn't sound like a hate group to me....
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom In responce to post # 101: The fact though intresting are irrelevant.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>As I understand it, Minutemen (current version, not the historical version) basically were formed to be a type of Neighborhood Watch program for the Border Patrol, to be extra eyes and ears. They support the program since they want to see the current laws to be enforced, just like a local community forms a Neighborhood Watch to catch folks stealing, and committing other crimes...<< ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm dizzy from all the spin written in that sentence. No, they are a hate group. This malarkey is their public face, but they are no different than Mecha in terms of their ultimate goals (a racially pure Southwestern US). Unfortunately, one has gained credibility because of the public face and the other is rightly considered to be the wackjobs they are.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Isn't the Minutemen motto: "Die Mexikanisch sind unser Unglück!" (The Mexicans are our misfortune!)?
Originally Posted By fkurucz You know CM, the opponents of the pro-life movement paint pro-lifers using similar smears. They're monsters who are out to subjugate women, and keep them barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. How do you know that the Minute Men are racists? Have you experienced this first hand at a secret meeting where they discussed their true agenda?
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Isn't the Minutemen motto: "Die Mexikanisch sind unser Unglück!" (The Mexicans are our misfortune!)?<< And I get slammed with Godwin's law?
Originally Posted By YourPalEd <<<ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>>> Please refrain from cursing. And you call yourself a man of the cloth? Shame shame shame.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>You know CM, the opponents of the pro-life movement paint pro-lifers using similar smears. They're monsters who are out to subjugate women, and keep them barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.<< And, of course, in most cases this is incorrect. >>How do you know that the Minute Men are racists?<< Listen to the diatribes. It's ALWAYS, "Mexicans" this and "Mexicans" that. >>Have you experienced this first hand at a secret meeting where they discussed their true agenda?<< Try listening to right-wing talk radio sometime. This is what drives groups like the Minutemen. It's always about "the Mexicans" or worse, "illegal Mexicans."
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>And I get slammed with Godwin's law?<< The first one to bring it up invokes it.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Please refrain from cursing. And you call yourself a man of the cloth?<< I said I am a Catholic, not an ordained bishop, priest or deacon. Neither am I vowed religious. I'm just a layman but who knows what my vocation will be...
Originally Posted By cmpaley By the way, when the slur "illegal Mexicans" is used, it's not meant as a distinction between legal immigrants from Mexico and illegal ones. It's a slam against Mexicans. Mexico is described as a "hellhole" and worse. Interestingly, I think we can learn something about democracy from the Mexicans right now. They are demanding that their votes actually be COUNTED. Would that us Americans did that with as much fervor.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom << I think we can learn something about democracy from the Mexicans right now.>> Whats that? Mob rule?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<They are demanding that their votes actually be COUNTED.>> Hyprocy in action. I seem to remember the Clinton Administration delaying a shipment of military absentee ballots ( four pallets worth ) overseas to prevent them from being counted in the 2000 Presidential election.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >><< I think we can learn something about democracy from the Mexicans right now.>> Whats that? Mob rule?<< Nice. Very nice. I guess that means that you don't believe in democracy. Perhaps aristocracy or something like that? Right now, the United States is an idiocracy (figure it out). >><<They are demanding that their votes actually be COUNTED.>> Hyprocy in action. I seem to remember the Clinton Administration delaying a shipment of military absentee ballots ( four pallets worth ) overseas to prevent them from being counted in the 2000 Presidential election.<< What are you talking about? I have no objection to all votes being counted. It's very possible that there was genuine vote fraud in the recent Mexican election, so the people have the right to demand that their votes be counted.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I still say that no one would be getting all crazy if hordes of poor white Canadians were coming across the border to get American jobs. Yes, there is a component of wanting to see laws enforced, etc in all this discussion. But there is also a component of racism that is impossible to ignore. Maybe we should send all the illegals to New Orleans where they can drown with the poor blacks. :-(
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I still say that no one would be getting all crazy if hordes of poor white Canadians were coming across the border to get American jobs. Yes, there is a component of wanting to see laws enforced, etc in all this discussion. But there is also a component of racism that is impossible to ignore. Maybe we should send all the illegals to New Orleans where they can drown with the poor blacks.<< Exactamente!
Originally Posted By Dave >>>What I said is that the Minutemen crazies targeted a predominantly LATINO town. Why? Because in their twisted minds, latino = "illegal alien" (pronounced il-AY-a-guhl al-EEN").<<< Well it would be useless to target a town like Beverly Hills or Bel Air where the town isn't predominantly LATINO now would it!
