Originally Posted By gadzuux <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17138367/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17 138367/</a> >> WASHINGTON - The Army and Marine Corps are letting in more recruits with criminal records, including some with felony convictions, reflecting the increased pressure of five years of war and its mounting casualties. According to data compiled by the Defense Department, the number of Army and Marine recruits needing waivers for felonies and serious misdemeanors, including minor drug offenses, has grown since 2003. The Army granted more than double the number of waivers for felonies and misdemeanors in 2006 than it did in 2003. Some recruits may get more than one waiver. The number of felony waivers granted by the Army grew from 411 in 2003 to 901 in 2006, according to the Pentagon, or about one in 10 of the moral waivers approved that year. Other misdemeanors, which could be petty theft, writing a bad check or some assaults, jumped from about 2,700 to more than 6,000 in 2006. The minor crimes represented more than three-quarters of the moral waivers granted by the Army in 2006, up from more than half in 2003. Lawmakers and other observers say they are concerned that the struggles to fill the military ranks in this time of war has forced the services to lower their moral standards. “The data is crystal clear. Our Armed Forces are under incredible strain and the only way that they can fill their recruiting quotas is by lowering their standards,†said Rep. Marty Meehan, D-Mass., who requested the information from the Pentagon. “By lowering standards, we are endangering the rest of our armed forces and sending the wrong message to potential recruits across the country.†Army spokesman Paul Boyce said Tuesday he is concerned because the Pentagon data differs from Army numbers. But overall, he said, “anything that is considered a risk or a serious infraction of the law is given the highest level of review.†“Our goal is to make certain that we recruit quality young men and women who can keep America defended against its enemies,†Boyce said. << ----------------------------------------- I debated about starting a thread on this topic because on some level I'm not strongly opposed to providing 'opportunities' within the military for young men and women that have gotten off on the wrong start. In some ways the military is probably a good choice for many of these people. But the other issue is that gays and lesbians are still prohibited from serving. Felons? Okay. Gays? No way. And the age-old argument seems to be 'military cohesion', meaning that innate fear and loathing of gays would adversely affect the ability of soldiers to work together. Presumeably it's fine to be working side-by-side with an armed felon, but not gays. It's a sure bet that we'll be seeing more stories about US soldiers who "snapped" and committed some atrocity or other. Within a short time after that, we'll learn about their "troubled past" here at home before they shipped out. But at least we're protected from hearing about two guys who found love with each other in a war zone. That would be icky.
Originally Posted By Lake Nona >>writing a bad check<< If you do write a bad or bounced check..you do get a free pass to captain mast, article 15, or office hours.
Originally Posted By DlandJB If someone has served their time, and now they want to go into the service, I've no problem with that. I also think they should have their right to vote reinstated. Not all states do that. There should be no prohibition against gays in the military either, in my opinion. The only place I would draw the line is if someone who has been convicted of a crime was given the choice of serving in the military or serving their sentence. That would be a nightmare.
Originally Posted By DAR I wouldn't have a problem sending a child molester or rapist over to Iraq. If they got hit by an IED, no sleep lost here.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Obviously, this is going to cause over reaction. From what I have read the least serious offenders are the ones being granted waivers. Non violent offenders, such as white collar crimes and DUIs, and some minor drug charges. It's not like they are letting anyone join, there is still a standard. But to answer the question, the standards are being lowered in the military, and it shows in the discipline and work ethic of today's army, but that my friends, is a discussion for another time.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 1, I am currently in Germany, bet let's get back to the topic on hand...Military, bad, homosexuals good....
Originally Posted By DlandJB Hey William! We were just talking about you the other night and wondered where you had gotten to. Hope the family is well. We miss hearing from you.
Originally Posted By friendofdd I did hear an analysis of this story on the radio today. It was said that when all branches of service are counted, the number of felons is down significantly. Don't know where such info is stored so I can only repeat what I heard without offering a second source.
Originally Posted By onlyme Here's a scary thought... "The military routinely grants waivers to admit recruits who have criminal records, medical problems or low aptitude scores that would otherwise disqualify them from service." I don't care about the others, but LOW APTITUDE scores? Just how low are we talking here. Possibly similiar to Forest Gump's friend, Bubba?? Scary, indeed. But, as far as gays in the military, of course, they're free to join, but look what happened in the NBA. Even if the military allows them to freely 'come out', it'll be a scary thing for those who do, and maybe, not worth the trouble.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-09-army-recruiting_x.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/news/w ashington/2006-10-09-army-recruiting_x.htm</a> This is insane... I now know why I rarely visit this place anymore, comments like this I don't care about the others, but LOW APTITUDE scores? Just how low are we talking here. Possibly similiar to Forest Gump's friend, Bubba?? Scary, indeed.<< As in below the army standard, which is still quite high. The army gives everyone a GT Score from the test they take, from that score you pick your specialty, I scored in upper 5% so I work with computers, someone who scored in lower 5% could do 1 thing...shoot...It doesnt take a high test score to shoot a damn gun...
Originally Posted By friendofdd WK99, it's good to see you post again. Please consider sharing with us in some of the other LP sections.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I took that test, and the recruiter flattered thoroughly over my results. I was told that - lucky me - I was eligible for a submarine program, which was only offered to the upper percentiles. I later came to find out why he was so excited - recruiters were paid a bonus for getting people to sign up for sub duty because it's a six year enlistment. I decided against it.
Originally Posted By onlyme >>This is insane... I now know why I rarely visit this place anymore, comments like this<< Could you please be a bit more melodramatic next time. Besides, what's wrong with the comment. If a person scores well below the aptitude 'cut-off' level, they shouldn't be in the military. Don't you agree? On the other hand, if someone has been convicted of drunk-driving or smoking a few joints, that's not a big deal. You took my comment to imply some sort of anti-military stance...well, nothing could be less true. There was no offense intended.
Originally Posted By onlyme Boy, seems lately, I've apoligized to Gays, heterosexuals, christians, muslims, democrats, republicans, and even a few from the wicca community for, seemingly 'hateful' comment. I never realized what an obnoxious asshole I am. Thanks for letting me know. Later.....
Originally Posted By jonvn "I've apoligized to Gays, heterosexuals, christians, muslims, democrats, republicans, and even a few from the wicca community for, seemingly 'hateful' comment." You've left out Jews and Southerners.
