Originally Posted By RoadTrip Don't really know what I think about this. Accidents happen, and there is perhaps no way it could have been prevented. The boy died around 9:30 PM... Pop Century pools are open from 7AM - 11PM but lifeguards are only on duty from 10 AM - 8 PM. Couldn't Disney afford to have lifeguards for those other six hours, or at least during the late evening hours when pool usage is probably higher? Yes, we all know that people use the pools outside of the hours they are officially "open". But shouldn't the "open hours" at least be covered? I just don't know. <a href="http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-boy-from-fordland-dies-after-accident-in-disney-resort-pool-near-orlando-20130313,0,3795453.story" target="_blank">http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-bo...53.story</a>
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I think Disney should absolutely have lifeguards posted until at least midnight, at least during the busy seasons like now. Very sad story, but one that can be avoided in the future by proper staffing.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt From the article: "Multiple guests were present at the time. Johnson was under the water for several minutes without being seen by family members, before he was spotted underwater by his cousin, who pulled him out of the water." So how did he drown and why didn't anyone notice that he was drowning? Sounds to me like he may have had some kind of medical emergency which caused him to lose consciousness and go under. It's possible that having a lifeguard on duty wouldn't have helped to save him.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper <<It's possible that having a lifeguard on duty wouldn't have helped to save him.>> And it's possible that it would have. Either way, lifeguards going off duty at 8 during Spring Break is far too early.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<And it's possible that it would have. Either way, lifeguards going off duty at 8 during Spring Break is far too early.>> That is what I'm inclined to think.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< So how did he drown and why didn't anyone notice that he was drowning? >>> That's an *extremely* common way for a kid to drown: in a pool with lots of people around but "nobody sees" them motionless at the bottom of the pool for several minutes, all too often when it's too late.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Actually most hotels not just Disney tend to have a life guard on until a certain time.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip But unlike friends and relatives who are splashing around and having fun (as they should), lifeguards are trained to spot that. Would it have made a difference? I don't know. But I am inclined to believe that Disney should have lifeguards at the pools during all officially "open" hours. Somehow they manage to staff the pool-side bars until at least midnight...
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Actually most hotels not just Disney tend to have a life guard on until a certain time.>> Yes, but isn't Disney expected to be a step above the rest?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I don't know. Figuring lifeguards at WDW maybe make $10 per hour; staffing the pools during all the hours they are open would cost an extra $21,900 per year (per pool). Even if there were only a 50-50 chance that the kid could have been saved, wouldn't it be worth it? I don't know. I've never even thought about lifeguard staffing while using Disney pools. But maybe it is something to consider.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I wonder if you will see Disney either extend life guard hours at the pools or close the pools when there are no life guards on duty.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I also don't understand the whole operating hours vs lifeguard time thing, especially since the pools are just as well lit after they're "closed" (in case someone falls in, it's a lot easier to see them if the lights are on). If nothing else, I think they should adjust their policy to more clearly reflect the realities of what's going on at the pools >>So how did he drown and why didn't anyone notice that he was drowning?<< When the pool is full, the water becomes choppy and it becomes much more difficult to see below the surface. When I worked at a summer camp, our insurance required the entire staff to watch a video of a kid drowning in a pool, and see how easy it was to overlook it; even in the video, there were 2 lifeguards with a roughly-Olympic-sized pool and they didn't see him for 3+ minutes. At that point, the damage had already been done. I don't know whether or not having lifeguards would have prevented the death, but it is easier to overlook than you'd initially think. >>Figuring lifeguards at WDW maybe make $10 per hour; staffing the pools during all the hours they are open would cost an extra $21,900 per year (per pool).<< That's assuming that there's only one lifeguard on duty. The times that I've seen the pools fully staffed (admittedly, most of the time I pass by the pool it either early in the morning or late at night), there have been a whole crew of guards on duty. Thinking back to my January trip, there were at least 5 lifeguards around the main pool, both at Port Orleans Riverside and All Stars Music. And as for the cost vs benefit of it, perhaps we should use the Federal Highway Administration's assessment of a life's value. For design purposed (when determining how economical safety upgrades are), I believe it's somewhere in the ballpark of $200,000. I think we'll all agree that this number seems quite low, but it's widely used, both in design and insurance claims. Now compare that to the cost of staffing the pools at all 25 resorts, and how often people drown in the hotel pools (and this wouldn't include the countless 'quiet pools' around the various resorts which are currently unstaffed at all times). I'm not saying I agree with it, but the chance of a wide-scale change just doesn't seem too likely.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I blame the family on this one. Coming from Europe when it was generally swim at your own risk, it is up to the mom and day or guardian to ensure your kid is safe. This relying on others because you are too lazy or don't want to take personal accountability is getting dumb... The signs were posted, family went swimming knowing there were no lifeguards, family decided to screw around while kid drowned...It's a sad story but Disney is not at fault...
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 its mom or dad or guardian... Sorry if I seem cruel but in Europe where I lived for 6 years, people generally took care of themselves and didn't rely on others to "take care of them" and amazingly most of the time it was safe...
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <<< So how did he drown and why didn't anyone notice that he was drowning? >>> "That's an *extremely* common way for a kid to drown: in a pool with lots of people around but "nobody sees" them motionless at the bottom of the pool for several minutes, all too often when it's too late." So no flailing or kicking in the water? No cries for help? Unless I was unconscious everyone in WDW would know I was drowning, trust me.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>So no flailing or kicking in the water? No cries for help? Unless I was unconscious everyone in WDW would know I was drowning, trust me. << Most drownings don't happen like they do on TV. The person is out in water over their head, and they get tired, slipping under the surface. Once they're down there and don't have any air, there's not much flailing that can be done. When your primary goal is to keep your head above the waterline and keep breathing, splashing around and making a scene aren't very high on your priority list.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Most drownings don't happen like they do on TV." Mine would be. I would at least get one "help" or scream out before going under. lol. In all seriousness though, we don't really have enough details to know what the circumstances were. All I'm saying is don't jump to conclusions and say that a lifeguard should have been on duty when we don't know all of the facts.
Originally Posted By WDWdreamin I think it is very sad this boy drowned, but I agree that there were signs and it was the parents' responsibility. I don't think there should have to be lifeguards everywhere or fences locking pools when there aren't any.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 There are many hotels and pools with no life guards at all, and it is "swim at your own risk." If you choose to let your kids go swimming when there are no life guards on duty, you have to keep an eye on them and know what they are doing at all times. Should Disney have life guards on duty later? Probably, but they are not at fault. At the end of the day, it was the parents' decision to let their child go swimming when the life guards were not on duty.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Based on his recent comments over the past 3 or 4 months it seems Road Trip feels everyone in America needs their hands held for them and treated like a child because they can't take care of themselves... When my kids go swimming, I am ALWAYS in the water with them, period...As a parent it is my responsibility to keep them safe, not Disney's, not the Government. Now if a company or organization has an unsafe pool with exposed wires or other safety issues, then yes Government should and does step in. But saying that they need lifeguards at all times when the pool is open, is excessive.
