Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK, things have been deader here than job growth in our economy, so I'm going to do my part to stimulate ... Disney talk here. First, a shameless plug for my good buddy TDLFAN who put up some wonderful pics of his last visit to TDL last Tuesday on Micechat.com (I won't link to it as I am not sure that's allowed, but the pics/report are on that site's TDR Board and it's easy enough a caveman could find it, even without those piles of money with eyes on top!) I'd like to know if anyone here has seen crowds like those (and they are pretty typical from what I gather) ever at MK. There were at least 5-6 major attractions with waits of between 90 minutes and FOUR HOURS ... on a Tuesday ... in March! I have been to the MK countless times, including on holidays like NYE, Christmas and Easter and I have to admit being hard-pressed to recall any crowds like that. I say that because as Japan's economy falters much like ours, TDR is doing record business, adding an expensive E-Ticket, wrapping up a very successful 25th Anniversary campaign, just opened a huge resort hotel and debuted a Cirque show. They did all of this without layoffs (and they have a much higher amount of staffing to begin with) and, largely, without discounting (certainly nothing like WDW is offering). They've already announced major additions in the next 2-3 years including PhilharMagic (albeit at the cost of the old Mickey Mouse Review) in TDL, ... Turtle Talk, a different-themed version of TSMM, and the World of Color show at TDS ... and there's plans afoot to redo Tomorrowland as well. Oh, and let's not forget the fact that those parks don't have vast dead zones where attractions, dining and retail venues were simply shuttered without replacement ... or the fact that a typical day can see a half dozen different stage shows, numerous parades and different dinner shows. But ... enough rambling about how OLC OutDisney's Disney ...we all know that. What I am trying to gather is how legit the MK's attendance figures really are since I just have not ever seen crowds like TDL seems to get daily (even forgetting the fact it has many more attractions and a higher capacity) ... I haven't seen them at MK. Has anyone here? Thoughts? ~Shout out to TDLFAN!~
Originally Posted By Mr X Well, SuperDry did bring up a good point over on the Tokyo boards, and that is that long lines and apparently huge crowds don't always reflect how many turnstyle clicks the place gets in a day. As he explained it, since parkhopping is very rare in Tokyo but totally the norm in Orlando, the parks could get a similar number of patrons in a day but if the average guest stays in TDL for 10 hours while the average guest might stay in the Magic Kingdom for only 7 (and then parkhop elsewhere), your average perceived "crowdiness" will be 30% higher. That explains SOME of it, I think. But also, yes, TDL is having a record breaking year and when you've got 17-18 million patrons exploding into your premises, it gonna be crowdy. I was pretty shocked (and annoyed) when I visited recently in what I considered to be a slow time in February on a weekday and found that it was pretty much jam packed (not as bad as recently with school vacations and all, but still...2 hours for Space Mountain, 2 hours for Buzz...sold out fastpasses everywhere, long lines for food etc, etc...).
Originally Posted By Mr X In addition to parkhopping, it's also important to keep in mind that Orlando, with its' incredible amount of rooms on property, must also have a sizable chunk of folks who leave the parks at some point (all 4, not just the MK) to go back to their room for a rest, a swim or whatever. IF I were at TDR and staying at the Mira Costa or Disneyland Hotel, I'm sure that's exactly what I would do. But percentage wise, FAR fewer people are actually STAYING at TDR and as such they don't have a room to return to. All that is a long winded way to say, once people are IN in Tokyo, they're probably IN for the day. Not so Orlando. And finally, there is yet another important point to consider and that is that your average Japanese patron is FAR more patient than most other folks, and will willingly wait in a far longer line than others to see what they want to see. The fact that the gyoza dog line at DisneySea has boasted two hour waits in the past is proof positive of THAT. So, it's important to look not only at the 5-6 "headliners", or the crowds for a particular show or parade, but at the entire park. Even on the busiest days, Sindbad is not that popular at DisneySea and thus almost never has a long line. The same was true for Pirates at TDL until the recent rehab. And some of the "lesser" attractions, I do believe, pretty much have the same wait times as their sister attractions in Orlando. Just another minor point there. In short, I don't think they are fudging the numbers in Orlando. No.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Probably not fudging the numbers, but also not telling the whole story. In addition to "crowdedness" there's the issue of guest spend. It's well known that TDL visitors are much more likely to buy merchandise, including "obligatory gifts" for those left home (there's a specific word for this in Japanese) as well as things like headgear to wear in the parks. Plus, longer hours spent in the park probably translates into higher food and beverage sales per guest.
Originally Posted By MPierce I would never even bother going to a park as crowded as TDL looked. Also I wonder how it looked oner at TDS that day. MK went phase 4 today, but soon dropped back to phase 3, then dropped back to normal. What I don't understand is we get all these phases, and we get people saying it's going to be record attendance. What we don't get is the actual attendance figures since Disney doesn't give them out. My question is, how do we know that the attendance figures are correct, when they don't even give them out?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I wouldn't enjoy TDL (or any park) on a day like the one TDLFAN showed. But TDLFAN tells me it shouldn't be quite as crowded when I am looking to go (October/November). Parkhopping is certainly more prevalent in Orlando ... I've often argued it is one huge reason why Disney feels it can lower quality across the board ... if someone is bored at MK, they can go ride EE at DAK or go Soarin at EPCOT ... they feel the total is more than the sum of its parts. I think X's point about returning to resorts is also true to some extent. Although I've read enough and heard enough to understand there are many nuts out there who pay $500 a night for a Disney deluxe resort and spend six hours in the room while riding Space Mountain 11 times in a day too. I guess I still go back to my original question ... and today would be a great example. I wonder what waits are right now at MK ... on such a crowded day ... and how that compares with TDL. ~If I gotta wait an hour for an attraction, it ain't gonna be in Orlando!~
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb "~If I gotta wait an hour for an attraction, it ain't gonna be in Orlando!" Funny, that's what I say about Anaheim.
Originally Posted By MPierce I waited for over an hour many times for POTC back in '67. I was much younger, and Pirates was so unique back then. I felt the waits were worth it. I was also trying to pick-up girls back then.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Well statistics tell us that girls are heavier these days, so bend your knees and be careful of your back ;-D
Originally Posted By Mr X ***But TDLFAN tells me it shouldn't be quite as crowded when I am looking to go (October/November).*** Don't believe everything TDLFAN tells ya. I've seen some insane crowds during those months as well (particularly in mid-late October when the event is drawing to a close). Here's MY measure for an insanely crowded day..when the streets are so packed that they have to cancel planned character greetings and street shows. And I've known that to occur at least a few times in every month of the year with the exceptions of February and June. It occurs frequently in October.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I thought about the first week in November as a 'down' time between the Hallowen festivites and the Christmas ... but frankly, I'd rather battle some crowds and not miss all the amazing seasonal stuff. But maybe I shouldn't look that far ahead since I'll be at WDW, DL and DLP before then anyway! ~A Spirit's Got To Travel!~
Originally Posted By Mr X Yes, the first week in November is rather quiet. If you want the best of both worlds, you could arrive around the 30th, see the Halloween day festivities, enjoy the parks for another day or two in relative calm, enjoy the city for a few days, and then go back once more for the opening of the Christmas festivities (assuming you have 7-8 days to spare).
Originally Posted By Anatole69 I went to TDS the first Monday of November. It was very manageable and I was able to ride some things 2 or 3 times, including Journey to the Center of the Earth, which I rode 3 times. I doubt I would be able to do that on a normal day. - Anatole
