Originally Posted By Beaumandy Hey RoadTrip, our bet about who will commit the next terror attack in America lasted one day. I win. This is scary stuff especially if you are a Jew. Oh, don't even tell me this was not a terror attack. We have a Muslim who decided he needed to go shoot and kill some Jewish women. The religion of peace lives on. <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060729/ts_nm/crime_shooting_dc" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200 60729/ts_nm/crime_shooting_dc</a> By Daisuke Wakabayashi Sat Jul 29, 4:16 AM ET SEATTLE (Reuters) - A lone gunman burst into a Jewish organization in downtown Seattle on Friday, killing one woman and wounding five others in what authorities were calling a hate crime. The gunman, Naveed Afzal Haq, 31, was arrested without a struggle at the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle, where the shooting took place. He was later charged by Seattle police with one count of murder and five counts of attempted murder. Haq is a U.S. citizen, police said, and their initial conversation with him by phone while he was inside the building indicated that he was a Muslim. Police would not disclose the content of the conversation, but Amy Wasser-Simpson, the federation's vice president, told the Seattle Times in a story on its Web site the man got past security at the building and shouted, "I'm a Muslim American; I'm angry at Israel," before he began shooting. "This was a purposeful, hateful act as far as we know, by an individual acting alone," said Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels at a news conference, adding "This is a crime of hate." Authorities said they were "taking every precaution" in searching for explosives and additional suspects and were monitoring the city's synagogues and Jewish organizations. "We are also protecting mosques, because there is always the concern of retaliatory crime," said Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske. Seattle police alerted its officers earlier this week about carefully monitoring synagogues, temples and mosques, but Kerlikowske said it had received no specific threats. The FBI was working with local authorities on the case. FEDERATION HAD PRO-ISRAEL RALLY Police first responded to reports of shots fired and a possible hostage situation at the center shortly after 4 p.m., when there were about 18 people in the offices. Haq, described by a 911 caller as a man in his 30s or 40s, surrendered to police unarmed, but authorities found his weapon, a large-caliber, semi-automatic handgun, inside the building, according to Kerlikowske. A hospital spokeswoman said three of the victims are in critical condition. The surviving women range in age from 23 to 43, including one who is pregnant. The fatal victim was only identified as a white female. The federation, a group covering the Jewish community around the Puget Sound, had organized a large rally last weekend to demonstrate support for Israel in its fight against Hizbollah in southern Lebanon. "I express our collective shock and dismay over the attack that has left five of our colleagues wounded and to share our extraordinary sadness for the loss of one of our colleagues," Robin Boehler, federation chair, said. The Pacific Northwest chapter of the Anti-Defamation League said earlier this year that anti-Semitic incidents were on the rise because of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and activities by white supremacists. In 1999, white supremacist Buford Furrow went on a shooting rampage at a Jewish community center outside Los Angeles, wounding five people including children. Later that day, he shot and killed a Filipino mail carrier.
Originally Posted By jonvn "This is scary stuff especially if you are a Jew." There's already plenty scary stuff if you're a Jew. People hate the Jews, and all the current anti-Israeli talk is basically a cover for it. It's all basic anti-semitism, really (yes, I know the Arabs are semites, too). It's pretty blatant. I was listening to Air America the other night, and they had on this guy, named Mike Molloy, and he was just going on and on and on about how Israel was doing all these terrible things and how awful they were, and how they were the Jewish State, and so on. Then he went on to say after a bit more of a tirade that he didn't care if people called him anti-semitic or anti-Israel (which he then claimed he wasn't, but of course he was). This is left wing intellectual anti-semitism. People don't have any real idea as to what is going on in the mideast, or why it is happening, or who is even there, but they do know they hate Jews, and it's an easy position to then take in all this. The people who Israel are fighting right now are the same sorts of people who also want to see us all dead, too. This fact seems to escape the notice of a lot of individuals out there who can't seem to grasp that very simple concept. And this act in Seattle just further underscores the point. These people didn't live in Israel, they don't make the policies of that country, they simply were Jews. That's all it comes down to, and that is all that it is. It's transparent, and no amount of worming around the subject ever makes it anything else than simply that.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Jon you are a trip. On one thread I can't stand what you say, yet on another thread like this one I totally agree with you. Mike Malloy on Air America is the worst of all of them. I have tried to call him but they would never take my calls.
Originally Posted By DAR It's funny we have these Malloy fella making these remarks about the Jewish people. Then you have Mel Gibson making remarks too. Hmmm I wonder which one will get more coverage. If any news orginization in this country had any integrity left, both actions would be condemned.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Except that virtually everyone knows who Gibson is, and virtually no one knows Malloy (who, for the record, I find insufferable).
Originally Posted By jonvn The thing is about Molloy is that it's a flagrant example of the rise of anti-semmitism on the part of the intellectual left. This is not always the case. On some shows, you get a much more reasonable approach. Yes, Israel has problems, but no, it's not all their fault, and every time something bad happens in the world, it's not the fault of a Jew somewhere, as a drunken Mel Gibson would have you believe. People don't seem to get that these terrorists want us dead. They want the people in Israel dead. They spread lies, distort history, and a lot of people who have got Cream o' Wheat instead of brains simply buy into their propoganda.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/29/AR2006072901032.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/29/AR2006072901032.html</a> >>The man suspected in a fatal shooting rampage hid behind a potted plant in a Jewish charity's foyer and forced his way through a security door by holding a gun to a 13-year-old girl's head, the police chief said Saturday. Once inside, police say, Naveed Afzal Haq opened fire with two semiautomatic pistols. One woman, Pam Waechter, 58, of Seattle was killed at the scene. Five more women were wounded. Haq, 30, was ordered held on $50 million bail Saturday pending formal charges of murder and attempted murder. Haq, a Muslim, told authorities he was angered by the war in Iraq and U.S. military cooperation with Israel. "He pointedly blamed the Jewish people for all of these problems," Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske said at a news conference Saturday. According to a statement of probable cause, Haq told a 911 dispatcher: "These are Jews and I'm tired of getting pushed around and our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East."<< >>Police and the FBI are labeling the shootings a hate crime. Haq entered the King County courtroom on Saturday wearing handcuffs, chains and leg shackles, and a white jail jumpsuit that labeled him an "ultra security inmate."<< Sorry, but this guys actions are just WRONG!
Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/29/AR2006072901032.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/29/AR2006072901032.html</a> >>The man suspected in a fatal shooting rampage hid behind a potted plant in a Jewish charity's foyer and forced his way through a security door by holding a gun to a 13-year-old girl's head, the police chief said Saturday. Once inside, police say, Naveed Afzal Haq opened fire with two semiautomatic pistols. One woman, Pam Waechter, 58, of Seattle was killed at the scene. Five more women were wounded. Haq, 30, was ordered held on $50 million bail Saturday pending formal charges of murder and attempted murder. Haq, a Muslim, told authorities he was angered by the war in Iraq and U.S. military cooperation with Israel. "He pointedly blamed the Jewish people for all of these problems," Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske said at a news conference Saturday. According to a statement of probable cause, Haq told a 911 dispatcher: "These are Jews and I'm tired of getting pushed around and our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East."<< >>Police and the FBI are labeling the shootings a hate crime. Haq entered the King County courtroom on Saturday wearing handcuffs, chains and leg shackles, and a white jail jumpsuit that labeled him an "ultra security inmate."<< Sorry, but this guys actions are just WRONG!
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Sorry, but this guys actions are just WRONG!<< I don't think you'll get anyone to disagree with that. I know the Rightists hereon need to make it seem like non-Rightists support what this guy did...but it's ridiculous on its face.
Originally Posted By FaMulan A hate crime, is a hate crime, is a hate crime. It doesn't matter if the KuKluxKlan, Neo-Nazi's, Islamist Extremists or any other fringe group is the perpetrator, it is wrong. There are peaceful ways to get one's views across, and killing innocent people just because they are in a group one personally and dogmatically despises is only going to bring the wrath of blind Justice down upon them. Does everyone know why all the statues of Justice are blind? Because Justice shall not and cannot be persuaded by anything but the written law of the land.
Originally Posted By barboy " Does everyone know why all the statues of Justice are blind? Because Justice shall not and cannot be persuaded by anything but the written law of the land." Nice theory FaMulan but here is the reality: The justice system is anything but blind to biases and most definitely is persuaded by gender, age, ethnicity, and one's personal appearance.
Originally Posted By barboy Hate crimes are the absurd product of interest groups' agendas and grandstanding politicians.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy I agree with you Barboy about " hate crimes ". A crime is a crime. Trying to guess the motive and putting the word " hate " on it is something so stupid we can only guess what group of people came up with this idea.
Originally Posted By jonvn "most definitely is persuaded by gender, age, ethnicity, and one's personal appearance." And how much money you have.
Originally Posted By DAR Isn't most crime a product of the hate inside that the person(s) committing the crime?
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Who cares what caused someone to commit a crime. If a gay person gets beat up because they are gay what difference does it make in bringing down a prison term. This is PC crap gone wild where we have to GUESS the motivation of the criminal. This is a liberal plan to protect the people they think are their voters, minorities and gays. When a black person attacks a white guy in the hood, how many times is that a hate crime? Try never.
Originally Posted By jonvn Motivation of the criminal is not PC, and has been used for many many years in determining what crime was committed and what the punishment was.
