Originally Posted By jonvn Yes, I would. The Rivers of America looks just like Missouri. The whole are there did originally.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros The Mine Train basically took up all of the space contained within the current Big Thunder footprint, the area between BTMRR and ROA, the Big Thunder Ranch, and possibly some space past that. It filled the entire area to where the original (pre-Small World) northern berm was. It lined up with Storybookland as well, and the line appears to be about at the northern edge of the log cabin that is in the ranch area today, along with part of the Festival Arena. Here are some old aerial shots that I found, showing where the trees for the woods areas were, and the desert sections at the northern edge creating a clear boundary. <a href="http://www.ocgeomatics.com/glis_products_landbased_aerial7.asp" target="_blank">http://www.ocgeomatics.com/gli s_products_landbased_aerial7.asp</a> <a href="http://tinselman.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/aerial_d.jpg" target="_blank">http://tinselman.typepad.com/. shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/aerial_d.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Thanks for those Aerial shots, they're great! I wouldn't consider the Subs, Twain, or Columbia anything like the Mine Train, or Jungle Cruise. None of those had lots of AA animals, attempting to show you how they act in the wild. Yeah, the other attractions passed "natural" settings, but they aren't quite the same thing.
Originally Posted By jonvn Actualy, the subs and twain/columbia did or do have figures that move. The entire river area was covered with animals and indians and such. The subs had a huge number of moving figures throughout the ride. So, I don't know what you mean.
Originally Posted By Pinocchio85 It's too bad they didn't save part of Nature's Wonderland when they built Big Thunder. Big Thunder only took up a small portion of the ride. Now all of that space is mostly unused.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Actualy, the subs and twain/columbia did or do have figures that move. The entire river area was covered with animals and indians and such." The figures along the Rivers of America don't move. They have never been AA's, but static scenes. Even the "Indians". The sub did have moving scenes, but they were not AA's either, and the purpose of the attraction was somewhat different. It just had a different tone to it. It wasn't about seeing underwater wildlife in it's natural habitat...that was a small part of the attraction. Instead it was just undersea exploration in general. So, you passed sunken ships, Atlantis, etc. The animals were just kinf of...there. Jungle Cruise and Nature's Wonderland were/are all about the animals.
Originally Posted By danyoung >The figures along the Rivers of America don't move. They have never been AA's, but static scenes. Even the "Indians".< Well, that's not really true. There's always been some simple movement to some of the figures around the Rivers, from the chief who raised his hand in greeting to the bear that used to scratch his back on the tree. But I agree that they're not truly AA's.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj This thread brings to attention the notion that most of the major DL attractions are simply travelogues through different landscapes (jungle, underwater, american rivers, etc.) The transportation methods change, but the basic concept behind the attractions remains the same. It also occurred to me that this sort of attraction is probably the only type that is not truly represented at DCA. I wonder what sort of opportunities there are in DCA for the "travelogue attraction."
Originally Posted By FerretAfros GRR is sort of a travelogue. It's the same general principle as BTMRR, where there is a thrill ride to move you through the scenery, but the scenery is definately from a specific place. I agree that there really isn't much time to appreciate a lot of the scenery on GRR, which I guess is why they are talking about adding a scenic train though the area. That would help fill in the void in DCA, but there are so many other great landscapes there that should also be showcased. In a way, I guess Soarin' does that as well, but since it's a film based attraction, you really don't get the scenery to enjoy from the rest of the park.
Originally Posted By Hannibal 8 A better comparison that everyone seems to be forgetting would be with the Jungle Cruise and the Mike Fink Keel Boats. I remember riding on them when I was a kid and they had guides that did jokes and a whole speil as you went around the Rivers of America. It was like the Jungle Cruise with less animals and a shorter line. Then one of the boats tipped over and the ride was closed for repairs (permanently). For a while there, the Columbia picked up the routines and the guys manning that shipped cracked jokes and had a speil. Now it's been piratized (although it's not a pirate ship), and the corny routines are gone...
Originally Posted By Brick-N-Mortar "A better comparison that everyone seems to be forgetting would be with the Jungle Cruise and the Mike Fink Keel Boats." The original "interactive rides".
Originally Posted By CMM1 A couple of comments: 1. There is a complete ride video of the old Mine Train Ride available at the Extinct Attractions website. 2. Without a doubt the replacement of NW with BTMRR was done to increase the thrill factor at Disneyland - probably just chalk it up with other "SFMM" features like a one-price admission ticket 3. I'm sure at some point there may have been some argument about the amount of real estate and the amount of maintenance being required for what was a fairly low capacity attraction. 4. Most certainly the NW area was a product of Walt's original idea of bringing nature films to life in his park, not to mention rides the whole extended family could enjoy.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj << 4. Most certainly the NW area was a product of Walt's original idea of bringing nature films to life in his park, not to mention rides the whole extended family could enjoy. >> It was essentially a sales pitch for the True Life Adventure films. I would have to conclude that once that film series ran its course, the value of Nature's Wonderland decreased accordingly and it made sense to come up with a more compelling and relevant attraction for that area of the park.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 It also had quite a lot of figures, exposed to the elements, and I've read several places that the cost of upkeep was starting to outstrip what they considered any possible "draw" of the attraction. Remember, this was in the days of tickets, and attractions had to essentially pay for themselves. The Pack Mules were gone, so this was one D ticket taking up a lot of space and costing a lot to maintain. You have to remember, too, strange as it may seem today, Magic Mountain was considered a major competitor then, and DL was seeming "quaint" and even "boring" to a lot of thrill-oriented teenagers. It's no accident Space Mountain and BTMRR opened when they did, and only two years apart. I loved the beginning and end of the Mine Train, though. Much as I like BTMRR, I kind of wish they'd changed the middle (desert) section with something more compelling and made it a "must-do" again.
Originally Posted By CrouchingTigger Man, if we had the Mine Train back again, I'd probably just spend the whole day on it. I loved that thing then, and really miss it now.
Originally Posted By dldhistory Here are some more good pics and info about: Jungle Cruise: <a href="http://www.dldhistory.com/attract.asp?Tab=Disneyland&Page=4&Ident=474&Action=Info" target="_blank">http://www.dldhistory.com/attr act.asp?Tab=Disneyland&Page=4&Ident=474&Action=Info</a> Mine Train: <a href="http://www.dldhistory.com/attract.asp?Tab=Disneyland&Page=4&Ident=490&Action=Info" target="_blank">http://www.dldhistory.com/attr act.asp?Tab=Disneyland&Page=4&Ident=490&Action=Info</a> --Richard <a href="http://www.DLDHistory.com" target="_blank">http://www.DLDHistory.com</a> THe Most Unique Disneyland History Site
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "It was essentially a sales pitch for the True Life Adventure films. I would have to conclude that once that film series ran its course, the value of Nature's Wonderland decreased accordingly and it made sense to come up with a more compelling and relevant attraction for that area of the park." Yes, but so was the Jungle Cruise. Adventureland was even going to be called "True-Life Adventureland" at one point. So both attractions were used to push the True-Life films. Yet the Jungle Cruise is still around. Also, it's figures are outdoors and exposed to the elements too. All of those arguements about Nature's Wonderland easily apply to the Jungle Cruise too. I'm just wondering why one went to "Yesterland" while one stayed.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros The biggest difference that I can think of is the speils. The Mine Train had a recorded speil, but the Jungle Cruise has a live one, which made it different every time. Also, JC took you to locations that you would probably never see in real life, while the Mine Train took you to places that were all within a day's drive of DL. The fact that they had to charicture those places (wobbling rocks, people cacti, Rainbow Caverns) made the attraction feel just a little too fake. Even now with the Jungle Cruise as a comedy tour, every thing that you see looks real, and it's only the skippers who make fun of the surroundings. I'm not entirely sure about this one, but to me at least, it also seems like a boat ride is more exotic than a train. Sure, we don't use long distance passenger trains as much anymore, but at one point they were the key to expanding our country. Those little steamers that we take on the exotic rivers aren't really like something that we could see every day. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of people took the train to DL, which really doesn't make it very original. Would you like an attraction based on sitting in a cramped airplane cabin? How about sitting in traffic on the 5? Wonder why Superstar Limo did so badly?
Originally Posted By jonvn "I'm just wondering why one went to "Yesterland" while one stayed." Because Disney wanted a thrill ride to compete for the teenage crowd at the time. That's why. So they ripped out one of the primal experiences of the park, one of Walt Disney's favorites, one that took you to another world and was cinematic in scope, and replaced it with a plasticized roller coaster plonked down on a pad of cement.
