Originally Posted By utahjosh <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-05-23-Sex-survey-revelations-on-gay-identity_n.htm" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/news/o...ty_n.htm</a> Pretty interesting article.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 All I got out of this article was...Gay is a choice because bisexual.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I've long felt that sexual orientation could not be categorized into neat little buckets of "gay" and "straight". I think the number of people who are totally gay or totally straight is relatively small. I think the vast majority of men and women fall somewhere on the line between the two. The closer a person is to the middle, the more it DOES become a choice. But so what? Who cares? It should make absolutely no difference whether choice is involved or not. People should be able to romantically love any other person they want. End of story.
Originally Posted By ecdc First, this isn't an "article," it's an opinion piece by a known-homophobe, Michael Medved. Medved is adept at using language creatively to push junk science (he's a big intelligent designer) and this is another example of that. He's also the master of the hydra argument. The moment evidence emerges to show Medved is wrong, he sprouts another head to spew even greater amounts of nonsense. A far more interesting study recently showed that--shock!--religious people have tremendous guilt and shame around sex. (Josh, I'll give you three guesses which religion topped the list as most ashamed.) Perhaps we should explore how sexual guilt causes the religious to impose their will on others by attempting to restrict civil rights....
Originally Posted By Mr X Aside from ecdc's excellent tear-apart here, I would suggest that any study that claims stuff like "80% of gays tried strait" vs "ONLY 6% of straits tried gay" is fundamentally flawed if it doesn't examine in microscopic detail the sociatal pressures of being gay. I know MANY gay people who've told me they felt extreme pressure to "get a girlfriend" in their youth (some who even got married out of societal pressure!) only to finally say "forget it!" at some later point. Thus the percentages are incredibly skewed (same with either bisexual or closeted gay folks who would've liked to "experiment" but didn't dare out of utter fear of any possible backlash if they were caught). Here's some food for thought. Of those who come out and "decide" to be gay after having experienced heterosexual intimacy at some point, how many of them go back to heterosexuality later in life? I dunno any. Does anyone? (I'm sure YOU know a handful if not more Josh, the pressure the gay community is under in your neck of the woods is enormous and downright suffocating)
Originally Posted By Mr X An even better question, does anyone know anyone who went "back" to heterosexuality while under no pressure whatsoever from a religious organization.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Does it matter if only 4.8% of people are Asian-American? Does it matter if only .9% of the population is American Indian? Does it matter if only .2% of the population is Native Hawaiian?
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Mr X: "Aside from ecdc's excellent tear-apart here, I would suggest that any study that claims stuff like "80% of gays tried strait" vs "ONLY 6% of straits tried gay" is fundamentally flawed if it doesn't examine in microscopic detail the sociatal pressures of being gay." Most gay men I have known (including myself) have tried being straight. We do it because of pressure from family and religion and societal norms. It always is disastrous. I know many straight men who have confided in me that they have varying degrees of interest in being with another man. The Kinsey scale is pretty accurate in my experience. "I know MANY gay people who've told me they felt extreme pressure to "get a girlfriend" in their youth (some who even got married out of societal pressure!) only to finally say "forget it!" at some later point. Thus the percentages are incredibly skewed (same with either bisexual or closeted gay folks who would've liked to "experiment" but didn't dare out of utter fear of any possible backlash if they were caught)." Yeah. Been there done that. My last attempted relationship with a female was disastrous. "Here's some food for thought. Of those who come out and "decide" to be gay after having experienced heterosexual intimacy at some point, how many of them go back to heterosexuality later in life?" I'm sure there are some. "I dunno any. Does anyone? (I'm sure YOU know a handful if not more Josh, the pressure the gay community is under in your neck of the woods is enormous and downright suffocating)" I used to live with a guy who is now married to a woman. He felt so strongly pressured by his family to be straight and have a "normal" life that he left me for an old high school girlfriend. He is utterly miserable but refuses to change his ways. It happens.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Perhaps Kinsey did a better job of getting people to open up. Liam Neeson sure does want to make me spill all my secret gay fantasies.
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Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "And the reason for posting this article..." Because he's a masochist. He posts crap like this, then acts the victim when people call him on it. I swear he goes back to the other little mormons and shows them what he's done, and they pat him on the back while taking pride in spreading their viewpoint, which is exactly like what my dog just did in the yard.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Just for the record, the God I believe in doesn't care one whit about a person's sexuality, nor do any other people who believe in the same God I do. You want to talk "my God beats your God or "my religion is best"? My God wins. Period, end of discussion.
Originally Posted By utahjosh It's been an interesting topic for many here for years an years. That's why I posted it. I'm not here to do anything but discuss and get other points of view and share my own. SPP, your hateful vitriol isn't welcome here.
Originally Posted By utahjosh The fact that many of us have different world doesn't mean I can't come and contribute to the discussion. SPP and mele, you are just being rude for rude sakes. I can only guess it's because my beliefs offend you. I can't seem to post anything about any topic relating to religion, sexuality, or marriage without being immediately called out as "masterbating" the topic or spreading dog poop as a "little mormon." It's inaccurate and rude, but I guess that's what you expect in WE.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The fact that many of us have different world doesn't mean I can't come and contribute to the discussion.<< Of course you can come and contribute, and I've stuck up for both you and Donny in the face of unfair attacks in the past, and will continue to do so. But it's unfair and inaccurate for you to continue (as Mormons everywhere do in the wake of the Prop 8 fallout) that this is simply an issue of different opinions or different worldviews. For the umpteenth time, we are not discussing budget deficits, privatization of Medicare, whether Citizen Kane is better than the Godfather, or if spray cheese is gross or awesome. You are making judgments, comments, and moral statements about people's most personal, sacred, and private relationships. Why it shocks you that that somehow riles people up is beyond perplexing. No one should take the judgments you pass on their personal relationships quietly or lying down. You posted personal information about your family situation a few weeks ago, Josh. IIRC, you received nothing but the best wishes of everyone on here. How would you feel if someone said it was just "God passing judgment on your family," or that your daughter should be taken from you because you're a terrible parent. Would you simply wave it off as an opinion? Or would you look down at your precious daughter and maybe get a bit fired up? We all react in different ways, and while Dabob2 has been nothing but long-suffering and patient with your "opinion," you can't be surprised that others aren't quite so kind hearted about it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <You are making judgments, comments, and moral statements about people's most personal, sacred, and private relationships> I'll continue to support my church's doctrines and actions. Many here disagree vehemently with that stance. I don't share it to antagonize, to belittle, or to "start a fight." I posted this thread because the statistics shared were pretty different from what I've been told before and I honestly wanted to see what people thought of the opinion piece. (I didn't realize it was a faux paux to call it an article.)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It's been an interesting topic for many here for years an years. That's why I posted it." A lie. "I'm not here to do anything but discuss and get other points of view and share my own." Another lie. You're here to preach. "SPP, your hateful vitriol isn't welcome here." No, your religion's successful brainwashing of you is not welcome here. Your religion imposing itself on the state of California via Prop 8 is not welcome here. Your religion's insistence on baptizing dead people who can't fight back and who aren't of your religion is not welcome here. Your religion insisting being gay is a choice is not welcome here. See a theme?
Originally Posted By mele Would you prefer I say that it's obvious why you read and post so much in these threads? It's pretty clear to many that you are fighting your own inclinations and need to continually convince yourself and the world of your heterosexuality? I think I've been pretty polite to not mention that every time. YMMV. It's also clear that you get off on being a martyr for your religion. You like "just talking about it" even when you know the reception you'll get for it. It's clear you enjoy it because you continually seek it out. Whatever, enjoy away...but it's obvious that it's what you're doing. Why not just admit it? Everybody needs validation...just admit that you feel vindicated when you participate here? I've given up on discussing religion with you, mostly because even though I hold it in low regard, I find that I am more like the vocally religious when I judge people...and that's one thing I definitely do not want to be.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I'll continue to support my church's doctrines and actions. Many here disagree vehemently with that stance. I don't share it to antagonize, to belittle, or to "start a fight."<< Josh, when Mr. X posted links to the temple ceremony, as I recall, you were very upset. You asked that they be taken down by the moderators. You asked that people not read them. Why was that? Perhaps because you consider the temple ceremony to be sacred? You ask that people show you that respect. What you don't understand is that for most people (certainly for me), my marriage is the most sacred thing I have in this world. I would never, ever pass judgment on another person's marriage or tell them they don't deserve to be married. You demand respect from others but then you don't give it in return, and you naively continue to act as if this is merely a benign difference of opinion. That compartmentalization on your part, that hypocrisy and disconnect, is disturbing. Believe what you like, but on this topic, you earn every single last bit of vitriol and nastiness that comes your way.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder >I'll continue to support my church's doctrines and actions. Many here disagree vehemently with that stance. I don't share it to antagonize, to belittle, or to "start a fight."< Yes, you do. You know it starts a fight and you continue to do so. It happens two to three times a month. And you're doing YET AGAIN, and playing the victim. Just for the record, the God I believe in doesn't care one whit about a person's sexuality, nor do any other people who believe in the same God I do. You want to talk "my God beats your God or "my religion is best"? My God wins. Period, end of discussion.
