Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<the new attractions make or break my decision to go or not>> I don't think that is typical, at least not for the vast majority of visitors to the World. They go for the "magic," not one particular ride.
Originally Posted By A Happy Haunt <<the new attractions make or break my decision to go or not>> I like to go every 3 years or so. I wait until there are a few new things at all the parks. So far, only KP @ EPCOT looks new.
Originally Posted By demderedoseguys >I don't think that is typical, at least not for the vast majority of visitors to the World. They go for the "magic," not one particular ride.< Count me among that group. I've had days we're my wife and I just go in and walk around the parks for a few hours and maybe do a few attractions. There's more to WDW than just the attractions. It's really a beautiful place.
Originally Posted By dshyates Oh, I love just sitting and soaking in the Disney Magic, but I do have a conflicted opinion. I am an amusement park junkie. I actually LIKE Universal Orlando and the Busch parks. So I usually look at who is building what, how long its been since I visited a given park, and simply how much I want to see the new offerings. There are a lot of parks out there building suff I want to see and with limited cash and vacation time I have to choose. So if its between a WDW trip to see TSMM and AIE, and Universal Orlando/Sea World, with Simpsons, HRRR and Manta I would have to choose Uni/SW for summer '09. Disney has nothing new that I am interested in seeing, and Universal has 2 things I want to see (HRRR more so than Simpsons) and SW has Manta coming. I can't imagine going to Orlando to WDW when there is nothing new I want to see, and skipping the others that DO have things I want to see. And unfortunately doing both isn't an option. Sure if I had the money I would split my time between them all, but time and money prevent that.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> wow, if you could get that message across in W/E you'd be a hero << It won't work in WE because those people are nuts over there.
Originally Posted By MPierce If the Mouse is doing so well why do the offers keep coming. I received this offer today in the mail... 5 night/6 day vacation at select Value resorts between 3/1/09-4/16/09 $594 per adult based on double occupancy. Free $500 gift card at check in. I guess Mickey wants some more of my money. Heck the gift card would almost pay for my beer.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Disney leadership is responsible for a global economic disaster?>> <<They are definitely part of the collective Corporate America Mindset that got us where we are today. They really thought that they could lay millions off, offshore their jobs and that there would be no consequences.>> Amen to that. The mindset at Disney became one like that of any other large multi-national, multi-billion $ corp in the 1990s. They went over to the Dark Side and there's been no turning back. They built the bed they're sleeping in. And I am not ignorant enough for a second that the Walmart model is the only business model that can produce profit and growth in an American corporation. Unfortunately, Disney sees things differently. Soon you'll only get a bun with your burger if you ask for it 'because our guests are looking for a healthier lifestyle with fewer carbs, we decided to make this menu change.' ~Pass The Pixie Dust~
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Universal Orlando/Sea World, with Simpsons, HRRR and Manta I would have to choose Uni/SW for summer '09. >> I'm sure these are all fun attractions, but nothing that would compel me to make a special visit. Simpsons is just a fun overlay on a simulator attraction that was never really top-notch to begin with. HRRR is a fairly standard coaster and Manta is essentially the same coaster that Busch just installed in Williamsburg under the name of Griffon. While these attractions are "new," they're really nothing that we haven't seen at other parks before. I guess it's fine to get excited about this stuff, but you can go to Busch Gardens Williamsburg and get the same sort of thrills without making the trip to Orlando to see this particular things.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << And I am not ignorant enough for a second that the Walmart model is the only business model that can produce profit and growth in an American corporation. >> WalMart reported January sales today -- pretty much the only major American retailer with positive gains year over year.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << They built the bed they're sleeping in. >> Well, if you compare the parks results against previous recessions and economic downturns, they are performing far better than history would have led you to predict at this point. During the recession of the early 90s and after 9/11, the bed was a whole lot harder to sleep in that it is now in terms of financial performance. Most of the major Wall Street finance guys have been predicting that the parks would be doing a whole lot worse at this point.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<InBev isn't going to continue paying the bills for Busch either.>> Perhaps, InBev buying AB was the problem to begin with. <<I read a newswire item this afternoon where their plans for parks in Dubai are now officially cancelled. Expect more announcements like this one from all the themed entertainment companies.>> Don't believe everything you read. The project has been delayed for six months at which time it will be reevaluated. Could it be killed? Wouldn't rule it out. But I think it's much more likely to happen just at a slower pace and perhaps without as many bells and whistles as originally announced. As to other projects, they're moving full speed ahead. Universal Singapore is well into construction for a 2010 opening. Universal's Dubai project was pushed back a bit, but is still on. And then we have Shanghai DL that the Mouse is desperate to get built and it will. Our own intrepid 'insider' Leemac has stated it will debut in 9/14 and I believe him. So, no, it's not like park projects are getting killed or scaled back even. I think BEC's plans for Dubai were overambitious to start (although I admire that 'tude vs. Disney's LCD approach) but that's like all the casino companies that rushed to develop the Cotai Strip in Macau without taking due dilligence.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<< "When was the MK last new E-Ticket?" 18 years ago. >>> <<It doesn't seem to have affected park attendance. Some would call the lack of investment in a new E-ticket a shrewd business decision.>> Some would. What would you call it?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Some would. What would you call it? << I would call it a cheap Mickey relying on past reputation to carry him through. What ever happen to redefining greatness at WDW, and establishing new higher standards for the theme park industry.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Why does it matter if they have not put in a new E ride at Mk only,>> Because you need to keep a park fresh and dynamic instead of stale and staid. Because TWDC advertises the MK as its flagship park and it always 'somehow' manages to be the No. 1 attended park in the world. Because of the above one might think it rational from both creative and financial standpoints to add something significant at least every 4-5 years NOT the time it takes for someone to have a baby grow to adulthood. It's just absurd by any measure to justify the MK's stagnation. It's spitting in the legacy of the people who created the place, embarrassing for a company that prides itself on offering the best in family entertainment and because it diminishes the product it is bad business long term as well. <<Have they added things at the other parks?>> That is a hollow argument. The bigger is better BS that counts as spin at TDO. You get bored after four hours at MK because it so stale? Hop on over to EPCOT or one of the other parks (if they aren't closed already). <<And why does it only have a be a E ticket ride?>> It certainly does not ... but in 18 years? C'mon, a conservative approach would have had at least 2-3 E-Tix added in that time frame. None? While one E-Ticket was left to rot for a decade before being paved over for a McDonald's Playground? While other attractions of the C and D variety -- like Skyway, Diamond Horseshoe (actually an E show in its heyday as far as quality), Canoes, Keelboats etc ... disappeared with no replacements? Sorry, but I am tired of getting fed the line that less is more because it comes with a heaping dose of DISNEY MAGIC! I equate that term with another one that starts with bull and ends with it. <<Would I like to see more big thrill rides and should Disney add more? yes. But what I also wanna see is a place that can keep its biz stable and not one that spends foolishly to appease a small group and run itself into the ground. >> Greatly diminishing the quality of your product over time does nothing to ensure your long term viability, even if your short term bottom line shines. You also make it seem like MK's staleness is something only a small group of crazy fans notice or care about. You're mistaken, much like WDW's 'leadership' team ... if they just hung around their own parks and resorts and OBSERVED they might realize that many guests feel nickel and dimed at best, scammed at worst by The Mouse ... and that many notice the same 'little' things that we bitch about here. They don't because they don't care. And ultimately, that's why so many of WDW's execs should be among the jobless these days.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Count me among that group. I've had days we're my wife and I just go in and walk around the parks for a few hours and maybe do a few attractions. There's more to WDW than just the attractions.>> Yes. That's very true. <<It's really a beautiful place.>> That still is true ... but have you noticed how the public areas aren't as maintained as they once were ... how trees and shrubs that once were perfectly manicured have been left to nature? ... how some beds have nothing in them but bags of wood chips? ... how many mature trees have been replaced by strip center seedlings? ... how areas affected by the 2004 hurricanes that are eyesores have largely been left in that state? And let's not even get into simply letting things decay like River Country and Discovery Island in full view of thousands of guests a day.
Originally Posted By dshyates "HRRR is a fairly standard coaster and Manta is essentially the same coaster that Busch just installed in Williamsburg under the name of Griffon" I think you need to take a closer look. The fact you said the Manta is essentially the same coaster as Griffon tells me that you don't know your coasters. While both Bolland and Mollinger coasters they are VERY different coastes. Had you said Griffon is essentually like Sheikra at BGA, I would agree. 200' verticle drop B&M Dive Machines with a splashdown Yep. very similar. But Manta is a B&M Flyer, the only one in the BEC. arsenal. And the only one in Florida. The only similarity is it has a splashdown. They are also running the queue through a Manta Ray Aquarium. No Manta and Griffon are NOTHING alike. As far as HRRR being a standard coaster, I wouldn't go that far either. The coaster itself is unique, it also has a few things I have never seen before like an inverted inversion. And there is no other coaster on the planet where you get to pick the music. And when its over go ina and have a hands on Post Production experience. Where you get to edit the video using 7 different camara angles and then when you are done email it to yourself, or post it to YouTube before you leave the attraction. Its like a hands on "Sounds Dangerous" smashed into a coaster.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> That still is true ... but have you noticed how the public areas aren't as maintained as they once were ... how trees and shrubs that once were perfectly manicured have been left to nature? ... how some beds have nothing in them but bags of wood chips? ... how many mature trees have been replaced by strip center seedlings? ... how areas affected by the 2004 hurricanes that are eyesores have largely been left in that state? << A huge pet peeve of mine. I couldn't believe the flower beds, but your right. Just a lot of wood chips. Even my wife commented first about it. Definetly not up to Disney standards.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I'm sure these are all fun attractions, but nothing that would compel me to make a special visit. Simpsons is just a fun overlay on a simulator attraction that was never really top-notch to begin with. HRRR is a fairly standard coaster and Manta is essentially the same coaster that Busch just installed in Williamsburg under the name of Griffon. While these attractions are "new," they're really nothing that we haven't seen at other parks before. I guess it's fine to get excited about this stuff, but you can go to Busch Gardens Williamsburg and get the same sort of thrills without making the trip to Orlando to see this particular things.>> And Disney guests could go to their local watering hole if on karaoke night if they wanted to experience AI too. They could watch CNN and listen to the real Obama speak and not a rebot one. They could play a video of the same tired, crappy 2001 parade with audio downloaded from the Internet. And they could go to a construction site (or a dump) if they wanted to see Space Mountain. Do you seriously believe Disney's 'new' draws are going to get people more excited than Uni's or Busch's? <<WalMart reported January sales today -- pretty much the only major American retailer with positive gains year over year.>> We're in what some would term a depression and that surprises you? <<Well, if you compare the parks results against previous recessions and economic downturns, they are performing far better than history would have led you to predict at this point.>> They are struggling at every resort worldwide that they actually own fully or in part. The only one that is doing gangbusters is TDR, which is wrapping up its 25th celebration now and has just opened a great new resort, has an amazing, unique state of the art Monsters E-Ticket opening as soon as the 25th ends, has announced PhilharMagic will be replacing the MMR and that a version of Turtle Talk is coming to TDS ... in addition both the new DCA World of Color show and a version of TSMM are also planned for TDS ... all in addition to MANY seasonal new parades, live shows and other entertainment. I'm sure that has nothing to do with their record business in Tokyo. As to WDW, I am not surprised the floor hasn't completely fallen out. Look at all the discounts from $49 rooms to Buy 4, Get 3 free (oh and we'll toss in a few hundred $ gift card too), to unheard of merchandise sales ... if anyone has any money/credit left and doesn't mind a stale product a WDW vacation can be an incredible value now.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I would call it a cheap Mickey relying on past reputation to carry him through. What ever happen to redefining greatness at WDW, and establishing new higher standards for the theme park industry. >> It all started with a helicopter crash ...
Originally Posted By dshyates "It all started with a helicopter crash ..." I really miss Stevie Ray Vaughn. But I didn't realize he was so influencial at Disneyworld. (Fanbois are having angina because I said Disneyworld. One word. no Walt.)
