Originally Posted By Sport Goofy <<< The fact you said the Manta is essentially the same coaster as Griffon tells me that you don't know your coasters. >>> You're right. A coaster is a coaster is a coaster as far as I'm concerned. Been there, done that. I'm not a real big fan
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << We're in what some would term a depression and that surprises you? >> Good to see you acknowledge that. Makes one wonder why the tone of your original post in this thread seems to indicate that Disney parks should somehow be immune to the economy. I remember when Disney parks used to reports losses every off-season, even when the economy was good. Things haven't gotten that bad in the current economy - yet.
Originally Posted By dshyates "A coaster is a coaster is a coaster as far as I'm concerned" I have been a member of ACE since the mid-eighties. I LOOVVEE!!! coasters.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 <<<It won't work in WE because those people are nuts over there.>>> IMHO, one of the worst of them came over here and became normal. Must be something in the air.
Originally Posted By MPierce I agree dshyates. WE is a poison that gets in your system if you spend to much time there. There is no known cure for overexposure to WE.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I wash thoroughly every evening and gargle with Listerine -- but I have to admit, I usually end up taking a few breaks a year - it's like the car crash you just can't help but looking at even though you know it is wrong
Originally Posted By vbdad55 there's also a few good people there from WDW threads- and it's good to have each others backs once in a while
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<Most of the major Wall Street finance guys have been predicting that the parks would be doing a whole lot worse at this point.>> As has been mentioned before, a lot of those trips taken last year had already been planned before the crash. That the keep extending the 7 for 4 promo indicates that things are dire. And a hefty discount like that will end up taking its toll.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<>> Some would. What would you call it? << I would call it a cheap Mickey relying on past reputation to carry him through. What ever happen to redefining greatness at WDW, and establishing new higher standards for the theme park industry. >> I think that WDW has been able to coast so long because the average guest doesn't visit as often as say the average DLR guest. But you can only do this so long.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I remember when Disney parks used to reports losses every off-season, even when the economy was good. Things haven't gotten that bad in the current economy - yet.>> Probably because they weren't into massive cost cutting in the old days, and they didn't lay off employees just because they missed a profit target. Plus the pressure to grow revenues and profits at a higher rate than the economy wasn't there, probably because those in charge back then knew it wasn't possible.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 << We're in what some would term a depression and that surprises you? >> <<Good to see you acknowledge that. Makes one wonder why the tone of your original post in this thread seems to indicate that Disney parks should somehow be immune to the economy.>> Not at all. Disney may be able to withstand a rec... I mean depression better than other companies, but immune? Not at all. I don't even blame them for all the cutbacks now, so much as all of them when WDW was printing money ... because it's left them in an awful unenviable position. But that goes back to the way the place has been run since the 1990s ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<As has been mentioned before, a lot of those trips taken last year had already been planned before the crash. That the keep extending the 7 for 4 promo indicates that things are dire. And a hefty discount like that will end up taking its toll.>> Well ... a little birdei flew in to tell me that DVC sales are so off that both the DAK Lodge Villas and the BLT will both be available as part of the Buy 4, Get 3 Free deal ... and a prediction from me: in another 2-3 months look for Disney to extend the promo right through the end of the year (perhaps even tossing in gift cards again) under the guise that Mickey is giving folks a 'reason to come celebrate at WDW' during these tough times. They likely have the commercials in production as I type.
Originally Posted By dshyates I guess that "Cost Prohibitive" rep they worked so hard on is really working for them, eh?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< <<It doesn't seem to have affected park attendance. Some would call the lack of investment in a new E-ticket a shrewd business decision.>> Some would. What would you call it? >>> I view WDW as a destination as a whole. MK has so much going for it since it has so many of the classic E-ticket attractions. So, if they want to focus new E-tickets in other parks, that's fine by me. I think EE is a great example (other than they did a bit on the cheap so much so that the signature element doesn't work most of the time) - it doesn't bother me a bit that it's not in the MK. What bothers me is the lack of upkeep at the MK. A couple of years ago, I went on an evening visit with a co-worker while on business in Orlando, and he had never been to a Disney park ever, although of course he's heard me and others in the office talk about them. I took him to my favorite attraction, the Haunted Mansion, and was embarrassed. Normally, when I hear people say things like that about a Disney attraction, I think they're going over the top, and being too much the fanboy. But in this case, the HM really was a disgrace. It had a totally different mood to it because the sound was so messed up, among other things. If they kept the MK maintained properly, both attractions and the other infrastructure, such as to the condition that DL was for it's 50th, then I think it's just fine that MK doesn't get new attractions. Most people going to WDW are on multi-day visits, and I would think that a good portion of them are on park hoppers. Considering that and that there's more than a full day of stuff to do at MK if everything is open and working properly, I don't see a lack of new E-tickets in that particular park as being a problem.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Well ... a little birdei flew in to tell me >> Is this the same birdie that told you that January occupancy was going to be something absurd like 35%? Or the birdie that you mentioned in the start of this thread that told you that revenues would be off 22% when they were, in fact, off 8%? Of course, it should be obvious that DVC sales are tanking along with the rest of the real estate market. You don't need a birdie to tell you that. Oh, and it might be useful to look at how the entire hotel industry is suffering right now. Everything from the Days Inn to the Ritz is having trouble filling rooms across the country. Could we get some context here to say how Disney is doing in comparison?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>Don't believe everything you read. The project has been delayed for six months at which time it will be reevaluated. Could it be killed? Wouldn't rule it out. But I think it's much more likely to happen just at a slower pace and perhaps without as many bells and whistles as originally announced.<<< Indeed the same is the view for the Gt Wheel Company. Projects on hold do not mean they are dead, in fact they are opportunities for greater negotiating. However, I was at a government dinner earlier this week where a top economist was predicting an L shaped economy as opposed to a U one. That is a scary prospect.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I view WDW as a destination as a whole. MK has so much going for it since it has so many of the classic E-ticket attractions. So, if they want to focus new E-tickets in other parks, that's fine by me. I think EE is a great example (other than they did a bit on the cheap so much so that the signature element doesn't work most of the time) - it doesn't bother me a bit that it's not in the MK. What bothers me is the lack of upkeep at the MK.<<< Amen. The MK was filthy last time we were there, there was garbage everywhere, toilets poorly maintained, and the AA's were broken on almost every attraction (not to mention getting stuck in CoP seeing the same section 3 times). I could not believe it. It is bad enough the MK has the worst version of almost every attraction that is elsewhere, but the maintenance and cleanliness issues made DLP look fantastic (which is a challenge Add in poor quality performers compared to DL, I was really disappointed. It is about the management, not the addition of attractions. And it is sad that the additions when we were there (new compared to our 2000 trip were): Magic Carpets (dumb down) Bush in HoP (ok, HATE the guy, but understand why he was there) Philharmagic (I think is totally overrated and hate the CGI treatment of classic characters) The Pooh Playground (my toddlers - core demo - thought it boring) Stitch Live (I like it, but it is a down grade from Alien Encounter which I loved) Monster's Inc Laugh Floor was about to open (replacing the awesome Timekeeper).
Originally Posted By itsme >>And don't get me started on replacing instead of adding That is Disney's mantra. That is all they have done at the MK for an entire generation. So for you to point at Uni for retiring Back to the Future for an actual current and more popular franchise seems odd when that IS Disney's model. But I do like how you started your biased rant with 'Oh, I like both Uni and Sea World, but they suck beyond belief". It seems a little disingenous at best.>> Your exactly right, and it shows that you have the bias but are unable to admit it. Funny how its great for Universal to do it but Disney is wrong for doing it. As for what Universal has done with both parks with closings/new instead of re-branding I'm not going to bother, you seem to be such the expert on all things theme park the reality of it wouldn't really matter. Also thanks for putting words in my mouth, it makes it really obvious that one has nothing when they have to refer to that.
Originally Posted By dshyates Yeah, I do have a bias. I don't think Disney is operating in a smart manner. And I think Universal and SW are at least trying to kick their product up. Disney is resting on laurals that don't even exist anymore. "Funny how its great for Universal to do it but Disney is wrong for doing it" I wasn't the one complaining about it. And saying that that is why Universal sucks. And Disney doesn't. I was just pointing out that Disney is FAR worse at it than Universal. And while not an expert or anything. I have worked at Kings Dominion (1984), Disney MGM Studios(1993), and Universal Studios Florida(1994) and watched operation techniques since the early eighties, And Disney has turned into a corperate minded product. Manufactured heart, and artistically bancrupt.
