Originally Posted By Doobie This topic is for discussion of the November 3 article: Toon Talk: Brother Bear at <a href="News-ID280010.asp" target="_blank">http://LaughingPlace.com/News-ID280010.asp</a>.
Originally Posted By wdwgreggy Kirby, I have agreed with most of your reviews in the past, but not in this case. I found the film visually beautiful and I loved the story line. And much like Timon & Pumbaa were absolutely necessary in Lion King, so are Rutt & Tuke and the rams in Brother Bear. To me, the story feels more like Lilo & Stitch than anything else, simply because of its emphasis on family, and because of the lack of a true "villain". This movie has a lot of heart, and I personally would love to see more like this. The preview for "Home on the Range" looked promising, and hilarious.
Originally Posted By mickeycanuck Brother Bear was a wonderful experince this past weekend, but then, I haven't met a Disney animated feature that I didn't like. Everyone involved in it's production should be proud of a gorgeous and entertaining film.
Originally Posted By Jim TK, thanks for your interesting observations. Ninety-nine percent of the time you put my thoughts into words, so I guess this is the one percent. I really, really liked this movie. I found it moving, funny, and I think it's more intelligent than most people are giving it credit. It also has a lot of daring elements to it as far as ground-breaking steps (no villain, a character who is villain-esque without being villainous; a thematic complexity beyond storybook themes--i.e. be nice, don't judge a book by its cover).
Originally Posted By MouseBear Salutations Kirby, While not as visually exciting as many Disney films or as compelling as Lilo and Stitch I thought Brother Bear was a very good movie. I agree that Phil Collins did a better job with the songs for Tarzan. But I thought the songs in Brother Bear were pretty good, except for the one used during the salmon run. Perhaps Disney is a victim of their own success. We expect a Lion King quality movie every time the Compnay releases a new film. Thanks for the review, Lee
Originally Posted By actingforanimators Articulate as always, Kirby. It's always a pleasure to read your columns. While I clearly liked the film much more than you, I don't know that I'd disagree strongly with anything you said - except for >>...Bear is an average example of the Disney storytelling art, pleasant yet unremarkable … but these are words certainly never said about The Lion King, Bambi or Tarzan.<< I'll say it...LION KING is pleasant yet unremarkable. BROTHER BEAR may not be remarkable, but I found it much more than just pleasant.
Originally Posted By ToonKirby Thanks for the feedback, everyone. Its always nice to open up a good dialogue about my favorite subjects, movies, so ... Some comments: >And much like Timon & Pumbaa were absolutely necessary in Lion King, so are Rutt & Tuke and the rams in Brother Bear.< I didn't say that these characters were unnecessary, and I didn't have a problem with them in the slightest. They brought good comic relief to the story and were, thankfully, not overused. >I haven't met a Disney animated feature that I didn't like< Neither have I. I didn't say I hated the film, I did like it ... to an extent. A "B-" grade isn't a horrible grade, just above average. >We expect a Lion King quality movie every time the Compnay releases a new film.< I know where you're coming from with this statement, but for the record I wasn't expecting a "Lion King" level film either. But I would have liked to have seen a little more ... passion behind it. >I'll say it...LION KING is pleasant yet unremarkable< While I wouldn't agree in whole on your statement, I can see your point of view. "Lion King" does often get 'Holy Grail' status pinned on it a little too often, mostly in the mainstream media, that such a viewpoint of 'over-rated' from us diehards can be easily understood.
Originally Posted By jdub What a great review-- I really agree with a lot of what you said; you hit it on the head with how jarring the music can be, the character design of the supporting cast of bears-- and how overall the film was mediocre. I do disagree with your post # 7 when you referred to the moose: "They brought good comic relief to the story and were, thankfully, not overused." The made me itch! (...and I'm not allergic to moose-- --I LOVE Bullwinkle!)
Originally Posted By Dlmusic BEWARE LONG POST FULL OF EGOTISTICAL RANTINGS Short repsonse: Brother Bear was IMO the best Disney animated film since Hunchback of Notre Dame. It's a been a long time (namely the Hunchback of Notre Dame) since I've walked out of a Disney film and thought it was a complete package of a film without major errors/flaws. Long response: Just to show where I'm coming from, here's what a brief history: Hunchback of Notre Dame was, when I saw it, the most moving and amazing film that I've seen in a theater. There still hasn't been a film that has so touched me since. The year after Hunchback of Notre Dame was Hercules, a cute but what I would consider below par for a Disney film. Not particularly memorable beyond the lively Alan Menken songs that occasionally pushed the boundry of absurdity. Meanwhile, Fox released Anastasia another mediocre film but I would still place it above Hercules for enjoyement. 1998 brought Mulan. From the trailers I was expecting a great epic tale and the beginning of the film was very promising. Some cute little moments of humor and Mulan showing great courage. Then the other foot of the film dropped and Mushu came onto the screen. What a jive-talking African-American had to do with that story still eludes me. Mushu wasn't the only problem though, the film kept on dipping into weaker and weaker plots. Finally the film ends in what was the worst ending to an animated film up to that point. Very disappointing film that should have been much better. Meanwhile Dreamworks released Prince of Egypt. While a little too self-centered the film was gorgeously animated, dealt with real human emotions and was an amazing epic. One of my favorite animated films, and Disney once again played second fiddle to a competitor. Tarzan was just about how it came across in the previews. It was overblown, obnoxious and full of, again, ridiculous circumstances. It was at this point I wondered how people could care about main characters that do such super-human feats and survive such amazing circumstances. I mean obviously you know they're in no real danger so I become emotionally detached from the film. Tarzan also suffered from badly placed songs and a frenzied plot. Meanwhile (getting used to this now), Warner Brothers released Iron Giant a simplistically animated but charming story about a boy and his do. . I mean robot. And for the third year in a row Disney's competitors bested the mouse. 2000 brought Emperor's New Groove, one of the strangest animated films yet. While it feature a few gag sequences I found brilliant, the movie was too cynical and cocky for my tastes. Meanwhile (how many didn't see that coming), two other animated films that were rather bizzare premiered. One was Titan A.E. a major animated sci-fi adventure. Sure it borrowed from every sci-fi movie in the book but it kept me entertained. It also had some fascinating animation, albeit not up to Disney standards. Chicken Run though was a complete hoot. A witty story about chickens escaping a ranch that was hilarious. Once again Disney did not take first place. 2001 brought Atlantis: The Lost Empire. I had high hopes from the film. I came out more dissapointed than I'd ever been in my life. Not only did the film make no sense, but the characters just seemed wierd for the sake of being wierd. Action just to have action, etc. No meaning, no message, just a lot of explosions. Definately not my kind of film. (Now let's all say it together) Meanwhile, a few other films came out that were entertaining in different ways. Shrek was mediocre and overrated but it had it's moments, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within also suffered from a weak plot but had interesting animation, Monsters Inc was a great film from Pixar. In the end again Disney animation would play back seat 2002 brought two animated films from Disney, Lilo and Stitch and Treasure Planet. Lilo and Stitch was an odd film that dealt with deep issues and bizzare characters. IMO the film was too shallow considering the subject matter and way too frenzied for my tastes. Treasure Planet was a fun romp through a classic story, but just fealt a little weak. Overall Treasure Planet was my favorite film since Hunchback of Notre Dame up to this point. Meanwhile, Dreamworks release Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmaron. Yes I hear groaning and complaining and I know all of the critisims of the films. The songs are rather obnoxious and the plot is somehwat dull. However the animation was absolutely outstanding and the film was more pleasant and the Disney films were. So we enter 2003 with Disney spending the last 7 years (in my mind) behind it's competitiors. Enter. . . Brother Bear. WOW! What happened? Disney actually made a story without some 2-d villain?? WOW! Disney made a story without some overboard ending where everybody almost dies in two seconds?? WOW! Disney made a movie that actually had me guessing at times where the plot was going?? It seems like an episode of the Twilight Zone or something. Kidding aside, Brother Bear was such a welcome breath of fresh air in Disney animation. It dealt with mature issues in a more mature way than I'd seen lately. It had characters that behave like real people and have emotions. It had amazing character animation where you could look in characters eyes and see exactly what they were thinking. It had music that while not the style I like fit well in the context of the story. It had humor that was irreverent but cute and clever. They didn't bog the film down in too many characters that unfortunately even Pixar is doing theses days. The action sequences are well directed, actually compelling at times. In the end, I get to finally walk out of a Disney film and smile and say. "WOW! That was great!" I've been wanting to do that for 7 years and it's nice to be able to do that again. I've not liked having to talk down movies that people cherish, or be the only person who doesn't think a film is outstanding. Even if I'm the only person that loves Brother Bear, it doesn't really matter. For the first time in 7 years I really love the Disney animated feature for that year, and it feels wooonderful being able to say that. It's also sad because we only have one more to go apparently. :-(
Originally Posted By Sweeper Kirby, couldn't have said it better. "B-" in my book. Nice, better than most of what's been out there for sure, but I won't be paying $9.00 to see it again. I'll wait for the DVD. I kept feeling like I had heard the theme of this movie way too much before. Bad humans, good animals, people are myopic, animals are enlightened. As for the aspect ratio change, I thought the film was broken. I completely missed that part. Too myopic I guess.
Originally Posted By narkspud Wow, Dlmusic, I was with you (in principle if not in agreement) until you declared Spirit better than Lilo and Stitch! Yeesh!! ;-)
Originally Posted By Dlmusic <<Wow, Dlmusic, I was with you (in principle if not in agreement) until you declared Spirit better than Lilo and Stitch! Yeesh!! ;-)>> Yeah, I understand completely where you're coming from. Spirit is a film that is not particularly well made. It is however well animated. Lilo and Stitch just never worked for me. It's not hideous though, just too Saturday morning cartoon. I do understand how somebody could like Lilo and Stitch and also hate Spirit. However I still don't get what people see in Tarzan.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I love Tarzan - It's one of my fav Disney movies. The animation quality, the opening, the romance, the comedy, and I really like the way the Phil Collins music narrates the story. I don't like Broadway style musical numbers in my animated features - this is where Little Mermaid really blows for me, and although I love BEauty and the BEast and Hunchback, I'd rather not have the musical numbers. AS for LIon King, I love the african style music, but not the broadway numbers. For me, Tarzan was the first animated feature that minimised the use of broadway numbers. Add the deep canvas animation, and a story I've always loved, and voila - a Disney film I went to the movies 4 times to see - a first for me.
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA We just came back from 'Brother Bear' and I completely agree with Toon Kirby's review. I give it about a 'C'. Completely uninspired. And an absolutely boring and overwritten story. I'm in a bad mood right now just thinking about it. It's not 2D vs. 3D animation. It's completely about the story. And this movie has no story.
Originally Posted By Great Stone Dragon For what it's worth, I thought Brother Bear was a decent animated movie. I'd say it was good, though nowhere near great. I wouldn't have any qualms showing this film to my little brothers or kids of my own, and I'd certainly see it again. The animation is good, the story is simple, but it works, and it's got a good message. Sure some of the themes have been used in other Disney animated movies, but I felt that they were used here because they were applicable, not to just throw them in for the sake of having them present. It was certainly better than any of the animated sequels I've seen, and I thought it was better than some of my lesser liked Disney features like the Aristocats or The Emperor's New Groove. It'd give it a B.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: Well, we Cauldron girls really enjoyed BROTHER BEAR, too! ORDDU: Although we have to agree that the musical score was sadly lacking. ORWEN: This time it was the story and the animation that moved us most. ORDDU: Not to mention the wondful sense of humor that was sprinkled throughout the entire production. I think I just might have to get myself a MOOSE for Christmas this year! ORWEN: There was obviously some computer animation going on here, too. But I guess that's okay... ORDDU: Over all, I'd say the movie was better than some of the OTHER recent Disney animated films of late. ORWEN: Just not as wonderful as so many of the other ones. But we'll still be glad to add BROTHER BEAR to our list of things to conjur up in our crystal ball--whenever we're in the mood to watch a Disney movie--which is most of the time...
Originally Posted By basil fan I don't think anyone has mentioned yet what I consider to be the worst thing about Brother Bear (okay, excluding the bad songs): the way the spirits zapped Kenai back into a man just as he was about to be killed by Denahi. I can't think of another Disney animated feature to use such a blatant deus ex machina to pull off the ending. That said, I did like the film, despite this flaw. But I feel like it ends that glorious golden streak that went from Mulan to Treasure Planet. What a great 5 years it's been! Every one of the features in that time period knocked my socks off! Fantasia/2000 was a little less great, but so much more watchable than the original that it seems better than it is. And I confess that Lilo & Stitch was a bit below the wow-factor of the other films in this stretch, but still good, yah, still good. Just MHO, of course. But I had an awesome time while it lasted. The Great Mouse Detective <a href="http://www15.brinkster.com/wtstsgalor/basil/bakerst.html" target="_blank">http://www15.brinkster.com/wts tsgalor/basil/bakerst.html</a>
Originally Posted By ToonKirby > I can't think of another Disney animated feature to use such a blatant deus ex machina to pull off the ending.< That whole sequence was muddled, with Kenai a bear, then a man, then a bear again ...
Originally Posted By Jim in Pasadena CA And if he's simply a man who has been transformed into a bear, why doesn't he pick up his own speak and fight back? Or better yet, scrawl a note in the dirt... "Denahi, it's me Kenai..."
