Originally Posted By Doobie I thought it was gone forever, but I managed to find a copy of this post made just before the boards died Wednesday night. Here it is again: ----- This past weekend I visited the DLR with a good friend that is a designer/graphic artist. Our first stop was DL and quite frankly I was greatly disappointed. Upon entering Town Square I IMMEDIATELY was struck by how drab, colorless and just plain OLD the place looks. To sum it up, DL needs about four coats of paint just as a starter. Small World looks faded and crumbling. The facade is an embarrassment and it is depressing to know that the refurb currently happening there will NOT be addressing such fundamental problems. Tomorrowland continues to be a joke and the closures on the West side made the Mansion our last stop in that section. Add to that an increasingly surly attitude amongst the legion of disgruntled eighteen year old CM's at the park that give you the impression they would rather be hanging out at the local mall than loading you cattle style onto an attraction and DL is pretty sad these days. My friend Bill has been visiting DL since he was a young boy, about thirty years ago and he was EXTREMELY disappointed in the park. Okay. Here is where it gets all "Twilight Zoney". Are you ready? No. I mean really.......are you ready? Cuz THIS is gonna be SHOCKING. Here goes. I LOVED DCA this time. Yes. You read that right. I LOVED DCA. This time, I TOTALLY "got it". I spent a couple of days walking this park with somebody that pointed out to me the little artistic touches that REALLY add a subtle and extra dimension to this place. We noticed beautiful finishes and textures to paintwork that made me see the work that has gone into this park. We LOVED the mural along the building in the Hollywood section that was made from items donated by CM's that they feel sums up life in California. I had walked past this several times before but it had not registered to me. In addition, Bill pointed out the faux finishes on several buildings that appeared to immitate marbling or an aged look that made me further appreciate the time and work that has gone into this park. Don't get me wrong-this is not TDS quality and on the funds available you would be crazy to expect this, but I DID enjoy just walking through this park. I guess as well, with the smaller crowds at DCA and the different themes, DCA has a different vibe. The place DOES feel more laid back and with the more adult theme, the absence of screaming demon spawn is VERY noticeable(and GREATLY appreciated!). I found myself feeling the opposite of last time-when the pressure of crowds(it was a BEAUTIFUL weekend here with BIG crowds at DL)got too much in the original park, I longed to cross over to the carefree atmosphere of DCA. I have always stated and I reiterate here now that I LOVED Screamin', Soarin', the Animation building, GRR and the Bugs movie. I find each of these to be EMINENTLY repeatable and thus I NEVER ran out of things to do here. The addition of the "One Man's Dream" movie adds to the park, IMO. This trip I also visited the tortilla exhibit and I noticed a nice touch that I don't believe anybody has mentioned. In the entry area are about five dioramas with video images of workers projected into them, toiling away. I THOROUGHLY enjoyed and appreciated these as they felt like a DIRECT tie in to the diorama concepts that Walt originally dabbled in when preparing for DL. Adding in the concept of projected video images seems fundamental to Disney's own ethos of utilizing updated technology for better show. If only for THIS, I also enjoyed this exhibit. Being somebody that comes from a country where Mexican food is almost non-existant, I also appreciated being able to see how tortillas are mass produced. Is this an attraction? I do not know. I enjoyed it nonetheless. I also saw a marked difference between the CM's at DCA and those at DL. The DCA workers seemed EXTREMELY more relaxed and MUCH easier to talk with. Perhaps it is the lower volume of guest traffic which allows for more potential personal interactions? I do not know. All I know is that the DCA CM's were friendly and took time to engage me in conversation. Thank you to those that added to my guest experience. This may sound like blasphemy but similarly to TDS, DCA is the kind of park I really enjoy just hanging out in. I enjoyed walking this park and sucking up ambience and atmosphere. I must also add at this point that the area music for DCA is almost an attraction in itself. Of particular note is the music played in Condor Flats. I can only mention by name Holst's Jupiter theme although I had heard several other of the pieces before. A lot of them were inspirational and soul uplifting and I appreciated their being added for guest enjoyment. Soarin' continues to be one of THE BEST Disney attractions(LITERALLY uplifting! ; ) )ever created and I would ride this a THOUSAND times over the lacklustre Stormrider(basically a bigger Star Tours)at TDS. A Soarin' type ride SHOULD HAVE gone into TDS. I hope to see a version of this at the TDR very soon. To sum up-I do not mean to write this to sway anybody. I just wish to say that I saw DCA in a very different light. Going with somebody that could point out to me the touches and nuances that ARE there helped me to appreciate the place. DCA IS a good start and if anything, I lament the move away from any attempt to center this park away a solid California theme. It will be sad if in ten years time this place is DL-lite. While there are still conceptual problems with this park(as indeed there with anything that attempts a directional shift away from the accepted)all I can say for now is that I had a BALL at DCA this trip. Oh-and Bill sitting next to me says he GREATLY enjoyed the Grand Californian. So. There ya go. Have at it kiddies. : )
Originally Posted By x-TDL-character Just HAD to go and dig it up, didn't ya! : P And all that time I figured the Cali Expansion section crashing right after this was posted was just the force realigning itself or something. ; )
Originally Posted By SJHYM wait...its getting dark....I'm coming Walt....tell St Peter I will be there in just a minute...do all old Disney attractions end up at Disneyland Heaven?
Originally Posted By jonvn And as I said in the post following up, it's very good to see that he is willing to have an open mind, and that I think a lot of enjoyment of places like DCA, or anywhere else depends on a couple of things. First, your own attitude. If you go in and are determined to not like it, or go in with the attitude of "Prove your worth" you're likely not going to like something. Second, if you go in with someone with that attitude, it will rub off on you. If you go in with someone who does appreciate the place and enjoy it, that will rub off on you as well. I've said a few times that the theming at DCA is very textured, and of a different style than that which is found across the esplanade in Disneyland. It's more subtle, and has to be taken in. It's a very well done park. This is not to say it is perfect, obviously it is not perfect, but then nothing is perfect. And it's maybe not how I personally would have done it if I was asked, which I wasn't. But what it is though is a good start, and a solid base from which to grow. The only thing I'm really not to happy about is that they were not able to stick with the more adult and somewhat more sophisticated street entertainment that they started with. They did seem to shoot a bit over the heads of a lot of people who were not able to understand the concept, and did not give it a chance. Fortunately the park is well designed enough that even though they took this course of action, it is still quite a good place to visit, and still quite a contrast to Disneyland. Hopefully it will remain that way.
Originally Posted By JohnS2 Isn't this about when the boards crashed before? This time I'm gonna be ready! I've got my bike helmet on!
Originally Posted By Oswalt Orlandoboi: Was that really you?... Or did someone leave a "POD" just for you in your basement? Watch out for those "PODs" from Outer Space...Next thing you know, You'll be humming tunes by the BackStreet Boys
Originally Posted By Futurist Traitor! ;-) __________________________________ I kept looking around for this lately, to see if there was any follow-up to teazing Orlandoboi with my "traitor" line. Now that I have had a chance to re-read this, now I can comment. Very nice points Orlandoboi. All true, depending on one's point of view. But if I may add, this is true for Heavy Disney Enthusiasts, and Annual Pass Holders ... who have time to kill. If you have all the time in the world, and the Attractions are SECONDARY, that's the time to take in the good points to DCA. When I think of DCA against Universal Studios in Hollyood (never been to the one in Florida), Knott's Berry Farm, and Magic Mountain, .... OH YES, one will find the more relaxed environment, the good touches one will find, and lesser crowds than of Disneyland ... rather inviting. That's why I feel Disney has done an "About Face" regarding Annual Passes. Last year's attendance speaks for itself. Now that DCA is basically free for annual passholders, they are doing everything they can to bring in as many bodies as possible. And with that, comes a more relaxed crowd that doesn't feel Attractions are everything. HOWEVER, the main stream of Disney theme park attendees, the 'regular' folk who come in on vacation from Anytown USA who have "x" amount of dollars, and "x" amount of days are going to go for the "meat" of an AMUSEMENT PARK. And what do those "normal" folk look for? This isn't hard, .... rides. All the detail, and relaxed environment you mention, which are all good points, are the whipped cream and cherry at the top, ... while the rides are the ice-cream. There are probably Ice-Cream Sundae afficianados who can stare at the whipped cream, nuts, and cherry all day ;-) .... But most go for sundaes to bite into that delicious ice-cream. I think the average family/group who come to Disney Parks (who probably make up some 95+% of total attendees) are going to go looking for rides, while the "rest" fills in the total day experience. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts, and please don't feel I'm trying to detract from the purpose of your topic. I just thought I'd throw in my perspective, that while DCA may be attractive (to a degree) for the major afficianados like us ..... I just wanted to add that rides are still important. Bye-the-way, have you been to the Grove at Farmer's Market? Like your topic, ....plenty of detail, relaxed environment, even a free trolley, and the place doesn't cost $45.
Originally Posted By Futurist WARNING - Futurist going for SNL/risque comment. >>And as I said in the post following up, it's very good to see that he is willing to have an open mind, and that I think a lot of enjoyment of places like DCA, or anywhere else depends on a couple of things. First, your own attitude. If you go in and are determined to not like it, or go in with the attitude of "Prove your worth" you're likely not going to like something<< Yeah..... It's called lowering our standards and expectations while the arrogant Disney takes advantage of the loyal 47 year following. They were/are DEFINATELY capable of doing more, but they simply copped out because of MONEY! Sorry jonvn. Having an open mind is a subjective statement, when one has to take into account the way Disney runs business these days ... when they CAN do a hell of a lot better, but are just plain lazy and don't care!
Originally Posted By Futurist Let me add, it's not driven by love, passion, geniune interest to entertain.... It's ALL about money now.
Originally Posted By x-TDL-character >>>it's not driven by love, passion, geniune interest to entertain....<<< At the top you may be right (and that's pretty much the bottom line anyway) but the imagineers that I know still feel all of the above. They are very passionate about their work, they love Disney and it's wonderful history for groundbreaking parks and attractions, and get very frustrated when they are budgeted down to nothing and are still expected to create Indy Jones II!
Originally Posted By Futurist OH, I couldn't agree with you more. Imagineers at WDI are artists, and dreamers. They are wonderful!!!! It's the idiots above them, who are driving this "dollars" agenda so far down everybodies throats it's going to end up hurting the bottom line. And they think they are doing just the opposite! Oh... what am I saying ...it already happened! Feb 8, 2001!
Originally Posted By themeparklover sorry. DCA is still a mediocre theme park. You can paint, add to it, put a big bow on it, but, a bugger is still a bugger.
Originally Posted By Futurist heh-heh-heh [Futurist, go to bed!!!!] Orlandoboi, I guess I deserve to have my hand slapped, right? Better yet, don't answer that. ;-)
Originally Posted By Judy from Boise I don't accept the premise that the out of state people come to DCA for the rides as their primary intrest. The majority of people in America have a "amusement park " much closer to them than DLR. They come to DLR for the themed experience. And many of theme are very satisfied with the DCA experience. It actually sounds like although TDS was done on a much grander scale, the DCA/TDS experience are similar in that the rides in either park are not the stong suit, and the person that approaches either park with a open spirit willing to enjoy the ambience, will be rewarded.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Yeah..... It's called lowering our standards and expectations while the arrogant Disney takes advantage of the loyal 47 year following. " No. It's not. Anyone who disagrees has a lower standard. That's the line you always hear. As has been mentioned, it's not a lowered standard, it's a different type of park. I don't have a lower standard. I'm sorry, but that's really quite insulting, and has been insulting every time it is said. It's been mentioned it is insulting every time it is said, too. It's hogwash and speaks to an inability to articulate your points without personal comments regarding those who don't share the same opinion as you do. Somehow anyone who likes the park is somehow inferior (lower standards). It's hogwash, and makes it look like you have nothing solid to back up what you say. As to the attractions being secondary or not, anyone can go ride a ride at any local theme park. The theming, service, marketing and so that come together in Disney parks is what sets them apart, and what makes them a destination as opposed to the local operators. What is a good laugh right now is that when people were complaining about the park not having enough theming, and someone starts figuring out how its theming works puts up a message, NOW, it's NOT the theming that is so important...again, DCA fails, no matter what is said. Obviously, this is a prejudiced type of opinion that can not be taken very seriously. "It's ALL about money now." If you think for one second that it was never all about money, then you are simply fooling yourself. Walt Disney made Snow White to diversify and grow his business, he knew he needed to do that to continue in existence. He says as much on the Snow White DVD. He did things because he thought they'd be popular and make him money. Now while he personally may have considered money secondary in importance to the things he personally wanted to do, he was not an imbecile, and understood what money was, and why it was important. More than anything, money was a frustration to him, but the USA was not a communist country while he was alive, and it was every bit as much about money then as now. Time to give that one a rest, too.
Originally Posted By Oswalt Certainly Walt Understood the importance of being successful, He was one of those rare few who had a REAL good idea of what the public wanted. I'm sure if he had proven himself a dismal failure in that regard, he and his brother would have noticed it right away and we all would probably know very little about the man. I think alot of this issue is just one big Misunderstanding. Certainly DCA is not as big a Grandiose concept as the Original Disneyland, but what possibly could be?.. EPCOT as it exsists?....Disney MGM?...I think not. Perhaps Disney Sea is the answer, They Certainly pulled no punches there. But Did anyone really think they could pull that kind of thing off in the old parking lot....I sure didn't. Personaly, I think the whole "Disneyland Resort" idea was just a way for the company to make Disneyland seem like more than it is and to get the city to pitch in with cleaning up the surrounding area. They never had any intention of doing anything as overwhelming as Disney Sea's. It's just an addition with the Disney touch. I do take issue with this idea that DCA would have been better off continuing with the Hip & Edgy idea, and completely different than Disneyland. What the Masses want most from Disney is Disney type entertainment and Disney better damn well provide it or there will be hell to pay. The standerds for this park were clearly not as high as Disny Sea and DEFINITELY not as high as Walts Idea of what an amusement park should be. But I seriously doubt the general public expects to see that in the old parking lot.
Originally Posted By dlport >>Yeah..... It's called lowering our standards and expectations while the arrogant Disney takes advantage of the loyal 47 year following. << Once again the utter pretentiousness of this debate astounds me. Is it so difficult to cite your critiques of DCA without attacking those who do enjoy the park? As if anyone who likes the park is simply a loyal follower, unable to see the lower standards which you claim to have found. There are many things worthy of debate regarding DCA. So long as some folks remain mounted on their high horses however, the discussion will always de-volve into insults.
