Originally Posted By grlweatswchpstx Ok, I haven't been out of the country in a while. Unfortunately, I've never had a real chance (and enough money) to make it to Europe but I am determined to go next year. I'm thinking either France or France and England, but I don't want to try to cram too much in. I think a week and a half for the time. I'd like to take a day and visit DLP as well, but to be honest I know I've still got a lot of research to do. Can anyone make recommendations of things I need to plan for? Best ways to get around? What kind of a budget we should plan for meals daily? Good hotels to stay at throughout the country? Really, I'll take any info I can get. Thanks!
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 Your question is rather broad as both England and France are pretty big countries. Which specific cities are you interested in? Is there anything in particular that you like, such as museums? tourist attractions? Historical castles? Europe is so vast that after living there for 3 years we have only scratched the surface of what the continent has to offer. Are you planning on renting a car or using public transportation? The cool thing about Europe is the rail system is excellent, especially in big cities. But if you wanted to explore some of the smaller cities, it would be wiser to rent a car. I may be a tad bit biased, but I would reccomend Germany as well for a little side trip. From Neuschwanstein(I know I spelled it wrong) Castle, which was Walt's inspiration for Slepping Beauty Castle, to HofBrauhaus beer hall, one of the oldest beer halls in Europe and home to the Nazi's during WWII. Berlin, by far has the best Public transportation in Europe that I have seen, an easy to use system that makes travel there a breeze, never waiting more than 10 minutes for a train period. In France, there is a ton to do as well, you would need 4 to 6 days at a minimum to catch most of the sites. The cool thing is, if you wanted to throw a sidetrip to DLP in, they have public transportation to basically the front gate of DLP, so even if you are staying in Paris itself, visiting DLP is rather simple. Another treat is Nice and Monte Carlo, I paid 100 Euro to drive a Porsche through the streets of Monte Carlo and had the time of my life.... England, well I will leave it to Davewasbaloo to answer any questions you might have about England. If you have any specific questions about France or Germany let me know...
Originally Posted By grlweatswchpstx I know it is, I've been living in California all my life and while I've been through it many times (I drive up the coast at least once a year), there is a lot I still haven't seen myself. I really don't know what cities I want to head to yet, as I said I've still got a lot of research to do. I just started talking about doing this with my bf at the end of our WDW trip this week. I would love to avoid renting a car, but I can understand how it would be hard to get to specific locations without one. I just really want to know cool things to do. I'd love to spend some time at Versailles (excuse my spelling) and the Louvre and see the Eiffel Tower, but I'd also love to see some smaller towns and more of the less touristy type areas. The more I think about it, the more I think maybe we should just do one country this trip, and take a couple weeks to do another country next year.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I agree with William about virtually everything here. 1 week and a half, you will hardly see everything. But a really easy way to ease yourself in is to concentrate on some key areas. I have lived in the UK (raised in California) for 23 years and travelled all over Europe extensively, and there is still a load more to see. I have seen pretty much everything major in the UK (which is the size of California, and France is even bigger). So it is really hard. We also have a little place near DLP, so we have traveled the Paris, Ile de France area extensively and would also advise any Disney fan to spend a day at DLP at least. Germany is great, as is Austria, Spain, Belgium and Holland, and all are different. Copenhagen in Denmark is lovely, and the home of Tivoli Gardens that inspired Walt. And Italy could easily soak up a month. In short, you will not see it all. In fact cities like London, Paris or Barcelona can easily take a week on their own to explore. So William asks some great questions, what are your interests - architecture, culture, museums, theatre, sports, clubbing, shopping, theme parks, nature and country side? There is so much diversity, especially when it comes to cuisine and history. I think the simple tour though could look something like this: Fly into Heathrow in the UK and stay in central London. Spend a day seeing the main sites of the Houses of Parliament, a river Cruise, Buckingham Palace, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral, Pall Mall, Trefalger Square etc. Maybe see the Tower of London (structures dating back to the 10th century). Do a little shopping at Harrods and explore Kensignton, A day trip out to Windsor and the Castle is great too. And a ride on the London Eye gives great views of the city. Also, do not miss the West End Stage shows, they are cheaper than Broadway shows or Vegas, but they are excellent, and some of the world's most popular shows started here in the UK. Also for museums, the British Museum is a must - including the Elgin Marbles from the Pantheon in Athens, the Rossetta Stone that enabled us to translate Egyptian Hyroglyphs, a great Persian and African collections, mummies, Sutton Hoo findings from the Anglo Saxon, the Lindesfarn Chess set - the world's oldest chess set. It is awesome. Also the Victoria and Albert is a treasure trove of costume and decorating tracking British styles over 2000 years - whole bedrooms, big court dresses, stain glass galore. It is fantastic as well. You could spend weeks in London and be amazed. And I don't even particularly like London, prefering the sites across the country (stone henge, Georgian Bath with the Roman Baths, Roman Verelanium - St Albans, Oxford, Cambridge, Stratford upon Avon - birthplace of Shakespeare with great plays by famous actors almost every night, Warwick and it's castle, Birmingham, Chester, Durham, York, Edinburgh, Loch Lomand, Inverness and Loch Ness, the Cornish Coast and castles, Mid Wales with the red kites and mines, the Lake District, Manchester. There really are some amazing places in the UK. I am still humbled that our local church is 1000 years old. Also, for a real insite into the war, the Imperial War museum is amazing. The US was largely unhit by the war compared to Europe and Japan, it can be a real eye opener. We have some good celeb chef restaurants and Indian food is a must when in England, as are Fish and Chips and pub grub, be sure to take in a tea at the Ritz or the Waldorf Astoria. Europe will seem very expensive to you. Budget safe hotels in London run about $120 a night. A good mainstream hotel like Holiday Inn is about $180 a night, and memorable character or 5* hotels are between $300 and $900 a night. Hence why we feel like the Grand Californian is a good price. Food wise, you can eat for between about $6 to $75 per person, per meal. And remember, refills on drinks are rare (but they are starting to become more mainstream at american chains - TGI Fridays, Pizza Hut, Subway, Burger King) A pint of beer will run about $4.50. A coke is about $1.30. It is cheaper outside of the city. Underground travel is about $8 a journey, though if you get an Oyster card it comes down to $3.30. After 3 or 4 days, you will be in an English speaking environment, and used to the time difference (which hits hard), you can then hop the Eurostar train from London to either Brussels, Amsterdam, Paris or Disneyland Paris directly (the others have departures about every 20 - 30 minutes except DLP which is once day). Tickets are about $45 each way if you book as soon as they go on sale, however, they go quick, leaving you with about $150 as an average ticket. Sometime, by a wierd twist of fate, you can get 1st class cheaper than standard. 1st class is great as tea and coffee, a meal with wine or champagne is all included. A wonderful way to travel. We find if the difference between standard and 1st is less than $40, it is worth going 1st. I will move on the France in a mo. I know people who have tried the country a day approach, but they end up exhausted and do not truly enjoy it. So maybe pick wisely.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo For a lot of my french tips, please search this board as I have written at length over the years including about Paris, DLP and the smaller towns. Personally I find Paris a little overrated and tend to prefer the smaller towns outside the city. It can be very dirty and smelly, but there are some great treasures there too. If you have never been to WDW it may be worth you simply spending the week and a half at Paris, DLP and the surrounding towns. For PAris, we love the Louvre and the Orsay, as well as the Opera. Spend time exploring the Montmarte, Sacre Cour and the left bank. Notre Dame is ok, but we prefer the Notre Dame of Rheims which is 90 miles to the East, where all the kings of France were coronated (not in Paris). The Eiffel Tower is a tourist trap and full of pick pockets, but the views are amazing. To me the Champs Elyesee and Arc de Triumph are meh. But the cemetaries (philosphers, historians, authors and Jim Morrison) and the Catacombe tours are great. Versailles is nice, but it is super crowded, crazily so, so be sure to get your tickets before you go. A wonderful alternative is Veax au Vicompte which inspired the building of Versailles. The Sun King was so jealous at the grand opening that he arrested it's owner and threw him in the Bastille until he died. On Saturay nights through Summer they light it and the gardens by candle. Here is something I wrote for a Northern Californian that might help: I am a northern Californian living in the UK, and my do not miss recommendation for you is Provins. Think a medieval version of Virginia City. It has 43 structures built in the 13th century, and has living history exhibits such as falconry displays, middle age siege weapons demonstrations, and an awesome medieval horseback riding show. It is a do not miss for people from the new world. An hour North of DLP is Compiegne, where Napolean's favorite home was (as well as where Joan of Arc was captured), or Pierrefonds, a lovely storybook town that looks right out of the 3 Muskateers, with a great castle, and of course the railway carriage where the armistace for WW1 was signed is between the two towns. About 80 minutes to the east is Rhiems. Now, most English speaking people are unaware that the Notre Dame here is historically more important than the one in Paris, as it is where all the medieval kings of France were coronated. Also, there are several champagne wineries to visit. Now I know Napa Valley and Sonoma have similar offerings, but the Tattinger Winery is in the cellars of a 13th century monestary (so a little different). Also, Vaux le Vicompte is worth visiting on a Saturday night, it is only a little way from DLP and it was the mansion that inspired the sun king to build Versailles. In fact, he was so jealous, he imprisoned the owner the day after the inaugural party, and the official that built the chateau died in prison. On Saturday nights, they line the gardens with candles. The other really great place to check out is Chantilly, about an hour north of DLP. It is a wonderful old town, but the chateau has the largest library in France after the Louvre, and contains the book Le Duc De Berry, the artwork that inspired Walt Disney's animators when designing the art direction for Sleeping Beauty (the castle looks like it belongs to Cinderella's step mother). The grounds also houses an equine (horse) museum, where there is an enormous mansion for horses (the owner thought he would be reincarnated as a horse), and as well as having lovely exhibits including a carousel horse display, it also has lipenzer stallion dressage and training displays. Also, Chantilly is reknowned for the sweet whip cream, very popular on waffles (guaffre) or ice cream. Barbizon is nice if you like impressionism, it was an artist colony during the impressionist movements. And DLP is in the Brie region, so the cheeses at local markets such as Meaux are great choices. If you like war time history, La Cople, 3 hours north of DLP, is where all the V2 rockets were tested by the nazis, and near by is the Artois region town of Arras, where there are immense underground tunnels to explore, first built in the medieval age, but essential for the allied wins in WWI, also the town has beautiful unique architecture, especially the town hall. also, a huge Canadian War cemetary is 3 miles out. 5 hours to the North West of course the Normandy Beaches, Mont St Michel, and the Beayeux Tapestry (c1086) tells the story of the Norman Conquest of England. 4 hours to the North East, you could pay a visit to the WWI trenches or Brussels, the capital of Europe (with some great architecture again), or the beautiful medieval canal town of Brugges (with more canals than Venice). Nearer to DLP, if you like coasters and shows, Parc Asterix is great fun. Think more 6 Flags Discovery Kingdom in Vallejo, but with better theming. Warning though, it is 100% in French, but my wife and kids do not speak French, but they still enjoy it. Also, if you like shopping, Val de Europe is 2 miles from DLP, and it is one of the biggest malls in Europe, with a designer outlet, an Aquarium, and some great dining options. we have been on vacation in the region over 50 times in the last 20 years and not seen it all. And as much as I love DLP, I really think people that just keep going to the parks are missing out on so much. There is far more to the region than just Disney and the city of Paris. Travel by Metro and RER train is easier than any other means, and often the cheapest. I would really recommend a trip to Provins or Chantilly, as well as a couple of days for DLP (1 at least). Also, ask Lulu her advice after a brief trip to France a few years ago. She loved it and had some good advice for American travellers. And at first she was not sure whether DLP would be a good use of her time as a seasoned Disneylander, I believe that opinion changed when she saw how amazing and different the place was. DLP is the most beautiful Magic Kingdom ever built. Any questions about other areas of Europe, just let me know.
Originally Posted By grlweatswchpstx Many thanks! This is all great info that will help me make some decisions and get started planning. I will definitely shoot Lulu and email as well. Thanks so much for the time and tips!
Originally Posted By Rsey103 grl, in London stay at The Covent Garden Hotel. It's beautiful. (www.firmdale.com) Exiting the hotel, turn left for walking distance to the British Museum. Turn right to walk to The Ivy restaurant. (On your way to The Ivy--no relation to the one in CA--you'll pass the sun dial that is represented at Epcot's United Kingdom showcase.) Have a great trip. Planning and anticipation are half the fun....
Originally Posted By u k fan I'm slighty biased towards Oxford, Stratford-upon-Avon and Warwick seeing as they are all within 20 minutes of where I live. Now that the Eurostar train makes it so convenient to travel between the UK and mainland Europe many itineraries follow Dave's suggestion of starting in the UK and hopping over. Having spent time in London I also find Paris a bit meh, but there are some fabulous sites and some amazing history. Dave mentioning Cornwall made me think of Tintagel which is rumoured to be King Arthur's castle. It's fantastic, but a long way out on a time-sensitive trip. I do agree though that London is only scratching the surface!!!
Originally Posted By LuLu I haven't read all of the info posted here, but I'll give my own biased advice. With a week and a half, I would stick to one country, or if you get good airfare into London, maybe London and Paris (lots you can do from a base in Paris, so don't fret). You'll eat up too much of your time traveling. Right off the bat, you're losing 2 days by coming from the West coast. We did 23 days and stayed strictly to France (1 day in Monaco which is an easy bus ride from Nice). It was perfect! Then again, a young friend of mine just did 2 weeks and about 9 countries! So it can be done, but I think it's more efficient to do 1 country at a time. Less prep learning language and culture and researching sites, less time just getting around. If you want to tour the countryside you'll need a car, but I wouldn't bother with a short trip. If you *enjoy* driving and want to do it, go for it, but to me a vacation from driving IS a vacation. BTW, we did a 2-week tour to see the majority of France, and 5 days on our own in Paris, using the train to get to Versailles and DLP, and the Metro or walking for everything else. And we added a couple extra days in Nice. So I'd suggest London and Paris, or Paris and Arles and/or Nice, something like that that's manageable. I don't remember where the TGV takes you from Paris - I think Arles. You can plan your locations around the transport available (and of course your interests!) Hotel prices floored me, and I think we saved by doing a tour. I LOVED IT! I had concerns that I was "copping out" or something, but the tour made everything so easy and relaxing. I simply didn't want to spend months of free time researching hotels and how to get around and what to see. Some people love that tho. We had plenty of time to see what we wanted to see, and time on the bus to decide before we arrived at a new town Our tour was Rick Steves and the quality was excellent. My young friend went on Con Tiki and I'd guess they're less costly. I loved that we stayed right in town tho, and the size was limited. Most tours aren't like that. You can save a lot on food. Don't go to restaurants! Cafes are great, and it's also fun to shop at the little markets and just "picnic." We only ate at restaurants when it was included in the tour, and that really worked well for us. Of course, in Paris we had an apartment. So we had fun going to the local market and eating simple things "at home." I don't know if we saved money this way, as the apt. wasn't "cheap" but it was a lot of fun. We felt like native Parisians! You may be able to get hostels or something to make it cheaper. I've seen some places where you can share kitchen use. It looks like fun! Choose your visit time carefully. Due to school schedules, we had to go late June-early July. Most things weren't too crowded, but DLP was horrible!!! Have a great time S!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Was DLP horrible or the crowds Lulu? Sadly, it seems that those size crowds are pretty normal these days at DLP.
Originally Posted By LuLu Yes, I was referring to crowds. That part was very disappointing. But to see the parks, eat at Walt's, and especially enjoy a private tour by the Baloos, was grand!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Lol. I hoped that was the case. But as I said, these crowd sizes seem to be the norm lately. In fact, it seems to be more crowded since that trip.
Originally Posted By LuLu If it wasn't possible to find a day less crowded than the day we went, I honestly wouldn't go again (or recommend it to anyone). Even the CMs were commenting on how unusually crowded it was that day. I believe we only got on 3 rides!
Originally Posted By u k fan It is possible to find lighter crowds, mid-week in the spring is my favorite time!!!
Originally Posted By u k fan Having said that, I've been thinking of going to DLP the first weekend of December (as a consolation to not making it to DL), but last year the crowds that weekend were huge with the park hitting capacity both days so I am wary!!!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Um, lulu, we managed 9 attractions, a stage show, and a sit down meal. For Paris, that is really good going.
Originally Posted By grlweatswchpstx Thanks guys good info to know. That brings up a good point, when *is* the off season for DLP? October is the easiest time for me to plan a trip and I can't leave before March (I've got a huge project at work until then). I think I'll take a look into tours, that sounds like a great suggestion. Thanks again all, very helpful, you're all great!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo chopstix - sadly it is hard to tell, like Disneyland, there are very rare off seasons. Just avoid the weekends. The quietest times are Jan - March (though it can be freezing, with litterly frozen fountains and snow - I think too cold and wet to enjoy it. But it is popular as they usually do a Kids gor free or 4 nights for the price of 3 type deals then. September is also quieter, but still busy too. And Early November is not too bad either (except during the bonfire celebrations). However, UKFAN may have a more current view, we have been constrained by the school calendar more for the last 2 years. That said, I do try to track through trip reports etc. Halloween week, Christmas and Easter are the busiest. Part of DLP's problems are the short hours. It has been known in the off peak for the parks to only be open between 10 and 6 or 7. Even at weekends, they often close at 8 or 10. And they have a stupid system of staggered opening and closing times which makes the park seem busier than it is. I (and many others) have sent letters of complaint about this one. But still, it is such an amazing park, it is worth enduring it.
Originally Posted By u k fan Midweek in March is our favorite time to go, the weather is usually ok and crowds aren't too bad although as Dave says promotions during that time have seen the resort start to fill. I went midweek in early April this year and the parks seemed fine. Mid to late September is also good as the schools are in and the weather can be lovely. I would avoid the winter to be honest as December is very busy now and January/February are cold and have limited opening hours. There is nothing less fun that freezing to death waiting for a parade! Avoid the last few weeks of October like the plague. I visited for a weekend over Hallowe'en a few years ago and the park was so full we waited 30 minutes to get in to the park (and I know the least crowded gates), we didn't ride a single attraction all weekend and the kids waited over an hour to get their hair styled for Hallowe'en (though they did look cool). The extra entertainment was great so we didn't feel like we'd missed out, but I wouldn't recommend it for first time visitors. If you must visit in summer you will be rewarded with better opening hours and extra entertainment, just adjust your expectations accordingly. You know the rest, Dumbo and Space Mountain first (also Peter Pan), IASW later etc etc.!!!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Or Big Thunder 1st too. I would argue that can sometimes have worse waits than Space Mountain.
