Originally Posted By brotherdave Jim Hill is claiming that the recession isn't hurting WDW as bad as they originally thought, mainly due to the "Buy Four, Get Three" promotion going on. So, because of this, he claims that the abandoned POP Century "Legendary Years" wings will finally get completed as family suites. <a href="http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2009/01/13/are-disney-world-s-recession-worries-starting-to-recede.aspx" target="_blank">http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/...ede.aspx</a> If so, it's certainly about time to do something about that eyesore and finally complete the resort!!!
Originally Posted By MPierce I would agree with getting rid of the eyesore. I just find it difficult to believe that Disney would reverse itself so quickly. They were even considering partially closing some resorts from time to time. How could their position have changed so quickly? I hate to sound like one of those people that believes in conspircy theories, but I'm really starting to believe there is more than a normal amount of disinformation coming out about Disney lately.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I was thinking the other day that Disney should turn the PC into CM housing.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Maybe with the economy going sour, there aren't as many people canceling their trips as they thought, but just a lot more being more budget-concious with them. I would bet that a lot of people who would have been staying at a moderate resort might now opt for a value with the problems going on. If that's the case, they probably would need more rooms at a cheaper rate, while they have excess of the expensive ones. By the time they get the construction finished, the economy will have recovered (it will be at least 2 years), but it's a good excuse to finally finish the resort, especially while construction costs are super low.
Originally Posted By MPierce I agree FerretAfros. It's just contrary to what WDW is presently doing which is cutting back CM's hours, and entertainment. It's just not adding up to me. You don't decide you are in a pickle one month, and start discounting, and cuttring back, then reverse that trend the next month.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey And if the Buy 4, Get 3 promotion is doing so well, why did it get extended? Originally, you had to book by December 20th; now you can book through January 24th. I might be wrong on this, but if it was successful enough to fill hotels quickly, wouldn't they have closed it at the original date?
Originally Posted By dshyates So Disney decides its time to put money into the place and what they decide on is more hotel rooms? WTF, are the execs OCD or something?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I hate to sound like one of those people that believes in conspircy theories, but I'm really starting to believe there is more than a normal amount of disinformation coming out about Disney lately.>> As someone who has lived conspiracy theories (Spirit's mantra: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!), Disney has the spin cycle on super speed now. From Burbank to Shanghai, Anaheim to Orlando, Glendale to Paris, Beijing to Hong Kong! But Hill is just trying to remain 'relevant' with this story ... and he's great at adding 2+2 and getting 1,654. We all know Disney has put out permits for some work at POP ... and there's a 'plan' to add family suites to that resort. Whether Disney believes now is the time to add capacity on the hotel end, while giving people no reasons to return on the parks end shows an arrogance and audacity that is frankly just mind-blowing ... I was just told Disney (which has five DVC resorts, three at WDW under construction now) has had so few people taking sales tours that some of the DVC booths in the parks will soon be closed (anyone hear about this? any CMs?) ... absolutely nothing is happening with Flamningo Crossings (a good thing in my mind) yet Hill thinks these new suites are debutting in 2010 ... sorry, that's not happening. To take attendance from the first 12-13 days of January at the MK only and extrapolate that to meaning things are fine and the recession/depression isn't affecting WDW is absurd. You had the tail end of the holidays, the fans in town for bowl games, including a national championship game that was played on the 8th, and the marathon crowd. I don't doubt that the MK has pulled in 30,000-plus people when averaged out. But anyone want to guess what attendance is like today ... how about at DAK or The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios? Hell, I know Sea World is on pace for its best ever January (but there are other factors at play there as well and their numbers are not close to Disney's). The continuing discounts tell plenty ... but since we have a holiday weekend coming up (so plenty of locals and APers will be out) someone will likely wait 80 minutes to get on TT or Soarin and therefore extrapolate some conclusion that is based on conjecture, bad hypothesizing and pixie dust!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<WTF, are the execs OCD or something?>> Nah. Just greedy and clueless.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Weeeeeeeell, I would like to add one small bit of info. My wife was at WDW this past weekend for the Marathon. And SHE said (and now remember she goes two or three times per year for the last 10 years) that this last Thursday - Monday was the "absolute lest crowded I have ever seen any park at any time at WDW." She has been the past four years to the Marathon with her mother, just not as a runner. Yes, not an official census of the attendance, but even discounting her observations, I'm guessing overall attendance is down, and not by a small amount. I could be wrong.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad No one has ever been able to explain just WHY POP has been left like that for sooooo long. I mean there must be more to it than, "...we don't want to finish this resort right now because demand is low, and anyway we are way too busy building bazillions of dollars worth of DVC housing..."
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Weeeeeeeell, I would like to add one small bit of info. My wife was at WDW this past weekend for the Marathon. And SHE said (and now remember she goes two or three times per year for the last 10 years) that this last Thursday - Monday was the "absolute lest crowded I have ever seen any park at any time at WDW." She has been the past four years to the Marathon with her mother, just not as a runner. Yes, not an official census of the attendance, but even discounting her observations, I'm guessing overall attendance is down, and not by a small amount. I could be wrong. >> No ... I think you are likely right. A friend went to Epcot and the Studios a few days ago and told me they were DEAD. With things like labor cuts, attraction capacity cuts and Fastpass, not to mention rehabs and seasonal closures, it's very easy to make a crowd of say 20,000 (light day at MK) feel like there's 45,000 people in the park. You can rest assured, all of the above are indeed skwewing things in many people's minds who aren't there as frequently or aren't as savvy to pick up on it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<No one has ever been able to explain just WHY POP has been left like that for sooooo long. I mean there must be more to it than, "...we don't want to finish this resort right now because demand is low, and anyway we are way too busy building bazillions of dollars worth of DVC housing...">> Simple. When it began construction in 1999, the idea was Phase 1 would open in 2001 and Phase 2 would follow in early 2003. Recession hit in 2001, followed by 9/11 and Disney just mothballed the resort (which was ready to be opened) ... and it sat and sat and sat until 12/03. By that point Disney wasn't looking at adding rooms in the value segment, so you wound up with an in full sight eyesore. I have no doubt they will do the family suites and do them there. It makes sense as it is one market they aren't serving on property and has proven successful at ASMu. ... too many people are staying at places like Residence Inn, Country Inn and Suites and, especially, the Nickelodeon Resort because they want a unit big enough for a family and they have no interest in buying or renting a DVC unit. I just don't buy the 2010 timeline Hill is spouting. Looks like he's just looking to drive traffic to his site.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <To take attendance from the first 12-13 days of January at the MK only and extrapolate that to meaning things are fine and the recession/depression isn't affecting WDW is absurd< Disney execs may be a lot of things -- greedy / uncaring about history etcetc - but they do know how the company is being viewed right now -- stock is almost under $20 share. They get this,their recent stock options are fairly meaningless -- I don't see them pumping money into PoP unless there is a return, which you don't get from empty rooms.
Originally Posted By Indigo Here's the only reason I think they may be doing this. If the rumor is true that they can't get any company to building a value resort at Flamingo Crossings (whether its the location or economy), and their internal numbers say they need a certain number of value rooms to maximize on property booking (which means on property spending). Finishing Pop Century would be the quickest way to solve that problem.
Originally Posted By MinnieSummer I have several family members going on different trips in the next several trips. Most of them planned on staying at AKL or WL but have now downgraded their resort choices. Two would have downgraded to Values but there weren't any rooms available to cover their trip dates (which I found strange but that's what they said). One cancelled entirely and the other went moderate. SO, if the powers that be are seeing alot of people cancel because they aren't able to get into a value resort this might make sense. I would just like to know how they would track something like this. If I cancelled a reservation I don't know that I would tell them that I'm cancelling because I can't afford their insanely high prices in this economy would you?
Originally Posted By Indigo Disney is known for its guest satisfaction surveys. It wouldn't surprise me if they also do random surveys with guests who cancel their vacations.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Also, although they may not be able to tell for individual cancellations, if they see lots of cancellations and lower numbers of new bookings at the deluxe resorts yet the values are fully booked, and this pattern is different than in previous years, no survey needs to be conducted in order to understand what's happening.
Originally Posted By sjhym33 I am not a big Jim Hill fan. I find his info to be suspect many times. But I also heard recently from someone higher up in the company that the family suites will be happening at POP Century and work will begin in the next several months. Disney isn't stupid. People are looking for a cheaper way to travel and this gives families some room to spread out at a more reasonable rate than some of the other resorts. I worked the week after New Years and I was surprised how busy it was but I also realised that most of it was residual holiday/marathon attendance. I was out at Universal this week and if it werent for the Brazilian tours and the British tourists I think I would have been the only one in the parks. I walked onto just about everything. I hear Disney has slowed down considerably also.
Originally Posted By partyhare Well, those abandoned unfinished POP units are a creepy ghost town, so regardless of the economy, I am glad to even believe a rumor that something is changing there.
