Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan "Psychic" Sylvia Browne told the mother of recently escaped kidnapping victim Amanda Berry that her daughter was dead 9 years ago on an episode of The Montel Williams Show. It was yet another example of this fraud's work. <a href="http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/05/psychic_sylvia_browne_called_e.html" target="_blank">http://www.cleveland.com/metro...d_e.html</a> What a disgusting, opportunistic liar. Countless people are taken by these people all the time, and usually when they are at their most desperate and vulnerable -- after a child has gone missing or when a relative has died unexpectedly. The motive of the "psychics" is money, fame, book sales, TV appearances. It's an especially cruel ruse, and hopefully this example wakes more and more people up to what a bunch of nonsense it all is. A Magic 8 Ball is more honest.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer People who claim to have connections to the supernatural always seem to prey on those who are desperate and vulnerable. They sell comfort and hope. It's sad, but it's a huge market.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 They are absolutely charlatans and crooks of the highest. They should be ashamed of themselves, but then that's probably a trait they wouldn't know how to posess. The office I work at is located in a suburb just south of Milwaukee, but we're located on of the major streets in the city that's 99% retail. But there's a little pocket where there's a mobile home park. Adjacent to that is a psychic reader place. That would be the perfect spot to put that up. You can prey on people who are down on their luck or aren't as well off as others.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>You can prey on people who are down on their luck or aren't as well off as others.<< Yep. It is disgusting. If something happened to one of my kids, I am sure I would be out of my mind in panic, which is when these clowns show up. Like a lot of these phonies, Browne claims it's all God's work, which lets her off the hook when she is wrong (which is always). She runs a classic scam where she fishes for factoids, by getting these little fragments of names, places, events that are so vague that anyone could interpret them to have some meaning or relevance. That Montel Williams gave this fake a regular national platforms to sell her snake oil is disgusting as well. I'm sure, if he ever does speak about it, will say hey, I'm just an entertainer.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Montell has never been shy to make a buck or two shilling for shaddy products. He does some money mutual fund these days.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck "People who claim to have connections to the supernatural always seem to prey on those who are desperate and vulnerable." Like...religion?
Originally Posted By mele I have a friend who is truly psychic. We go for weeks without talking but she'll know exactly what is going on in sometimes scary detail. The funny thing is she always gets the tail end of it so there's no "warning" she can give me. I am not scared of her ability but some of the things she has "seen" have been chilling. She hates her ability, however, and doesn't want anyone to know about it. She'd never contact a stranger or take any money. She's scared people will think she's a freak.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Mele, I met a guy like that; I am VERY skeptical of anyone claiming psychic ability, and have met some fakes too. They say things like "Who's 'R?'" like anybody wouldn't know someone whose name begins with R. Or "you'll be taking a trip within the next year," as though most people don't at least go somewhere in that time frame. But this guy was different. Like mele's person, he kinda hated it. And he didn't use it to make himself rich. He spoke to college psych classes, which is how my Dad (a psych professor and also a skeptic) got in touch with him. Note that he had never met my Dad, nor knew where he lived. My Dad went to see him at another nearby college unannounced and this guy had no idea my Dad was coming. My Dad was (to his surprise) intrigued - he thought he might use this guy as an example of the power of suggestion and gullibility! - and introduced himself after the class. This guy said "the southwest corner of your house is sinking." That's pretty specific, especially for someone you've never met and don't know where they live. My Dad later had a geologist from his college take a look... sure enough, the southwest corner of their house was sinking. Slowly, but sinking. This guy also asked my Dad who Doris was, and said she wasn't well. That's not the world's most common name. Dad has a cousin Doris who he was not all that close to and would only see once maybe every 5 years and pretty much never mention to anyone. Turns out she WAS sick (which my Dad didn't know), and was dead within 6 months. So... as big of a skeptic as I am (and I really am), this guy kinda impressed me. Particularly since he didn't do it for money, other than the small amount the college gave him. (My Dad later brought him to his class for a completely different reason than he thought he might; he did get some money, but it was minimal.) Having said that, I think the vast majority are either self-deluded (the more benign, if annoying, ones) or out and out shysters.
Originally Posted By ecdc I think the high level psychics, like John Edwards, James Van Praagh, and Sylvia Browne's are scam artists. I do think a lot of the average Joe Schmoe "psychics" genuinely believe they are psychic. They are decent cold readers without even knowing they are doing cold reading. A lot of it is intuition and human nature. But under controlled conditions, they can never, ever replicate it. And that's the rub. No one can replicate these so-called psychic abilities under controlled circumstances. The immediate response is, "Well, it doesn't work like that." Okay, let's set aside the special pleading logical fallacy and say, fair enough. It doesn't work like that. But then don't blame me for being skeptical when I've seen every single psychic fail miserably under any sort of controlled conditions.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Great, now I'm getting free psychic reading ads. I should have seen it coming.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>No one can replicate these so-called psychic abilities under controlled circumstances.<< This is but one of the reasons why I remain a skeptic.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I have a friend who is truly psychic.<< Magicians have a very important saying: Only half the trick takes place on stage in front of your audience; the other half happens after the show in the audiences' minds. The point is, memory is instantly fallible. We don't remember something, we recreate it in our brains and our brains tell us it's an accurate memory. Take Dabob2's story. On its face, it's remarkable, exactly the kind of story that get people who believe in the supernatural to exclaim, "Aha! How do you explain that one?" Well, pretty easily. We're on a third-generation retelling of the story. Dabob2's dad has this experience, he retells it to Dabob, who then retells it to us. Now, I have no doubt that the story, as related, is exactly how his dad remembers it. But what if the actual interaction were quite different? Did the psychic really say "southwest corner," or did his dad remember it that way after the geologist told him it was the southwest corner? Did the psychic really say Doris, or was that another memory flaw? Did the psychic talk about Doris, then mention someone else was sick, and this was morphed into one memory? Perhaps even more importantly, what else was said that was a miss, and was quickly forgotten? Our brains evolved to find patterns, so we latch onto those patterns and quickly add in our own details to reinforce the pattern - that's how a rather mundane coincidence can suddenly become so meaningful in our own minds. But when we don't spot a pattern, the hits are very quickly, very easily forgotten, and aren't counted against the psychic. That's not meant to be critical - this is how we all are. It's a bit odd - disturbing even - to realize that our memories are not a record of our lives, but whatever our brain recreates for us, usually heavily influenced by current circumstances. None of which gets into innumeracy. Most people greatly underestimate the likelihood of a coincidence. Things that seem really, really unlikely, (Doris? Southwest corner?) are actually much more common than you'd think. The problem is, it's not a very satisfying explanation. As a skeptic, when I shrug my shoulders and say, "Coincidence," it doesn't convince anyone. But the truth is, coincidences happen every single day. Chances are, if someone says, "What are the odds!" the answer is, pretty good, actually. But to paraphrase Thomas Paine: What's more likely, that humans misremember or a coincidence occurs, or the very laws of physics and nature are wrong?
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance ecdc I couldn't have said it better. I am highly doubtful of any type of psychic existing. Whether they do it for money or not. People that claim to be reluctantly psychic probably range of a continuum of being completely fabricated even though they claim they're "reluctantly psychic" to they've convinced themselves of it because of some coincidences that have occurred. No matter how convincing, there is either a reason behind it or a coincidence.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Did the psychic really say "southwest corner," or did his dad remember it that way after the geologist told him it was the southwest corner?> He really said "southwest corner." Out of the blue. Which is why it was so unusual and, all those things said about memory notwithstanding, memorable. It was seriously the second or third sentence he said to my dad after the usual pleasantries. "The southwest corner of your house is sinking." My dad is thinking "Where the hell did that come from?" And when he had the geologist over, he didn't tell him why, and even hinted he thought the little stream they had in the back of the place might have been a problem so as not to lead him to anything (and the sinking had nothing to do with the stream). The geologist told him about the SW corner of the house. Plus, between him meeting the psychic and the geologist visit, I spoke to them on the phone. My Mom (UBER-skeptic - she is from Missouri, both literally and metaphorically) said something like "if the southwest corner of the house is sinking I'll eat my hat," so I know the psychic must have mentioned the SW corner, and it wasn't the geologist who said it first. I told them to let me know what happened, and they did. <Did the psychic really say Doris, or was that another memory flaw? Did the psychic talk about Doris, then mention someone else was sick, and this was morphed into one memory?> He MUST have mentioned Doris being sick, because my Dad called her for the first time in years to see if she was okay. Believe me, I'm a skeptic of these things. Most of what ecdc mentioned in #12 is exactly how most of these guys work. But this guy really seemed different. The fact that it was NOT how he made his living only added to it.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance ^^^ That's how I feel anyway, but I realize not everyone will come to the same conclusions. Which is fine. I tend to think of it on the same likelyhood as God existing. Slim to none. Which isn't always a popular opinion, and I get that.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well, that certainly was condescending.<< I don't know, I thought Dabob's response was reasonable I actually had something in my post about how I know it's rude to contradict someone's anecdotal experience. But it was too long as it is. I don't mean to be rude or condescending. I just have an interest in this stuff, I've read a lot about it, and thought I'd respond. I'm sorry, I don't think your friend is psychic and I believe understanding this stuff is important.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance "Well, that certainly was condescending. " If you were referring to my statement, I don't mean to be condescending either. Just my personal opinion.
Originally Posted By mele <<I'm sorry, I don't think your friend is psychic and I believe understanding this stuff is important.>> I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I cared what your opinion of her was.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. When one psychic is able to predict the next days lottery numbers, I will start to pay attention. Telling me I have a sick cousin, or a sagging corner just don't cut it. Why can't these powers be used for medical diagnosis, or the stock market, instead of mundane, trivial things that usually amount to nothing?
