Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Just a random idea/thought I had... If, for the most part, the aesthetics, the details, and SMALL things that Disney used to do were kept around from the 90's, 80's and 70's, in today's climate of cost cutting and less "plussing", would some of us remain a little more loyal to WDW? And by small things, I am talking about maintenance, general entertainment, and general refurbishments of attractions. Essentially, if everything was kept up, kept open and functioning (hello resturants, and second floors of buildings, and water features...) but we still had the issues of not building anything new, not doing anything original in the parks, and had the DVC/Resort debate raging. So, essentially a roundabout way of asking about a mixed bag Disney. Initial quality still employed in the parks, but the issues of today still being there. What would you think?
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Honestly, for me, if the main aesthetic problems of EPCOT, for example, were fixed, I know a lot of my "angst" wouldn't be directed at that park. It would still have it's identity crisis/attraction issues, but at least it would look good.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Yes, in a word. I do not need new attractions to get me back. A major new attraction every 5 years is fine by me, IF, and this is a BIG IF, there is high maintanence, service ethos, selection on the menus, and quality live entertainment/streetmousphere around every turn. I mean people return to Hawaii or Yosemite year after year, and not much changes there. The reason I get grumpy about WDW (and DLP) are slipping standards in service, cleanliness, entertainment and maintenance. But I also recognise, I am not the average tourist who wants to buy cheap walmart crap, shovel as much all you can eat or junk food in a table service restaurant (because it is "free"), doesn't care that the monorails take forever to cycle or stupidly long bus waits that would never pass muster in European local government let alone commercial enterprise (because they have little experience of mass transit). the issue is this, if the experience at WDW were more like the time we went in 2000 at least (even better in the 80's and 90's), then we would be frequent visitors. But our last experience really put me off ever wanting to step foot on WDW property again. Not a hell hole, no, but I have had much better experiences elsewhere since, and for not as much expense.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 I think it would help a lot, but still wouldn't make up for the crappy attraction choices that have been made over the past 20 years. When attractions like the original Journey into Imagination and Kitchen Kabaret are replaced with crap like Journey into Your Imagination and Food Rocks, it's pretty clear that there are major problems at Disney World. And as davewasbaloo mentioned, the lack of a real mass transit system for WDW is just appalling - considering the number of people on property each year. So, while it would be nicer if Disney actually maintained their parks and property at the standards they used too, they would also need to be designing attractions at that old quality level as well to keep me happy.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>So, while it would be nicer if Disney actually maintained their parks and property at the standards they used too, they would also need to be designing attractions at that old quality level as well to keep me happy<<< I think the lesson to be learnt from all these examples is for Disney to stop trying to create something quick that cashes in on the latest commercial synergy (the odd stage show or meet and greet, fine, so long as it is not at the expense of themed entertainment, elecTRONica at DCA is an example of how they can do both for a limited time), and focus on creating immersive experiences that cannot be had anywhere else.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby ^^Food Rocks was replaced years ago. With Soarin'. If you are criticizing bad replacement choices, you have to acknowledge the good ones.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Great posts, guys. We seem to be of one mind. While "new things" are a main draw, and a big problem in WDW currently, it's just enough, honestly to see Disney quality in the upkeep in the place to keep me satisfied. Aesthetics are huge. Also, seeing that peter mentioned this, what about refurbs? Seeing beloved attractions changed for the sake of it? I'm against that, as in the case of JII, SSE, and the like, where we saw a lowered product after the work was complete. Things like that have the potential to keep me away from the resort, and to keep me... Aggitated, I guess. Thoughts?
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I honestly wouldn't give a rat's butt about new stuff if there was more refurbs like the Haunted Mansion. A refurb that takes the greatness of a ride and makes it shine through even more. Also, if live entertainment wasn't being cut left and right. And the Adventurers Club. I'd be lying if I said bringing it back wouldn't change at least a little of my attitude towards the company.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I think it would help a lot, but still wouldn't make up for the crappy attraction choices that have been made over the past 20 years. << Completely, 150% agree with this. >> If you are criticizing bad replacement choices, you have to acknowledge the good ones. << Don't you mean the good ONE?! *rimshot* Seriously, WDW's track record with new attractions has been pitiful the past ten years. >> I honestly wouldn't give a rat's butt about new stuff if there was more refurbs like the Haunted Mansion. A refurb that takes the greatness of a ride and makes it shine through even more. << I agree with this, too. If WDW was plussing attractions like they did with HM, I wouldn't be nearly as bored with the place (and MK, specifically). Think what could be done with Jungle Cruise, Big Thunder, the creaky, ancient Fantasyland dark rides, Country Bears (is audible audio too much to ask?), etc. So, yes, EE. If I didn't feel like WDW was doing as little as humanly possible to keep the gates open, I'd be a lot more willing to visit more than once or twice a year.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Food Rocks was replaced years ago. With Soarin'. If you are criticizing bad replacement choices, you have to acknowledge the good ones.>> Yes, but one could almost look at that as a negative since they could easily have kept the theater and still have added Soarin. (Though considering the quality of Food Rots, its probably better they just did away with that sad excuse for a show!) But more to your point, yes, there have been some good attraction additions over the years, but for me, they just don't make up for the replacement of some really great attractions with some really mediocre ones.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer ^ Same here. Honestly, the HM refurb really showed what they are made of. And still are. The Mansion continues to look stunning.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Post 12 for 10. Though, I agree with you, too, Peter. Food Rocks could have stayed, and we should have gotten rid of Circle of Life.
Originally Posted By -em I would say Yes. If the quality/standards etc of yesteryear was maintained I would understand especially in the rough economic climate that "that's where the money went this year" but when you walk by overflowing trash cans, dirty streets, burnt out light bulbs, shuttered offerings, dirty bathrooms, grouchy or ignorant CMs it just makes you regret spending money there... And I think in a way that's where Disney is going to loose its 'edge' as those are where the other parks are finding it easy to win. While the big things are important to add its the little things that keep people coming back. Last night I went to Sea World and while it was a very quiet day and the only line I experienced was in the restroom at park close I was very impressed as the custodian first offered the locations of the next closest restrooms (which I headed to) then while in line there she came in and proceeded to check and find stalls for the whole line (as the bathroom was oddly configured) Add her then thanking us all for visiting the park on the way out I was impressed. -em
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >> And I think in a way that's where Disney is going to loose its 'edge' as those are where the other parks are finding it easy to win. While the big things are important to add its the little things that keep people coming back.<< Yep. Those little touches, and differences is what's vital, think. And interesting story. I wonder, are personable CMs part of my "issue", too?
Originally Posted By -em >> I wonder, are personable CMs part of my "issue", too?<< I think they play a big part. I'm not going to be a complete optimist and say that I expect every cast member to love me, be over the top happy, and fawn all over me when I walk into a park but I expect a level of professionalism, job knowledge (including park specific details like bathrooms, closest food offerings) and a desire to be there and do the role you are paid to do. -em
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper The CM problem is one that's just not fixable at WDW. I know the saying is that nothing is impossible, but this is an impossible fix. There are just TOO many positions that need to be filled. That's one of the benefits for the smaller resorts. They need to fill a small number, and can pick the better candidates. Not to mention pay those candidates more and treat them better, and give them more care during training. My friends who now work at Uni have been RAVING about working there. WDW's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness, IMO. The size.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> But more to your point, yes, there have been some good attraction additions over the years, but for me, they just don't make up for the replacement of some really great attractions with some really mediocre ones. << I think you're conceding too much. I could count on one hand the number of good attractions that have been added in the past ten years.
Originally Posted By leobloom The employee turnover at WDW is a big issue, I suspect. I'm guessing the average frontline CM works at WDW for around six months. I couldn't believe how many new hires we would get and then lose in a couple of months. I knew some younger CMs who had been working at WDW for a couple of years. But if you decide to continue working as an hourly CM, you're probably not going to be moving up much. You might become a coordinator (which, as far as I could tell, was much ado about nothing), but it's not likely you're going to move into management. (I'm not even sure what skills were necessary to be a manager--maybe the ability to avoid being seen on-stage and giving irate guests free FPs as a last resort?) Yeah, WDW has a lot of jobs to fill, and the kind of people who are willing to work there for peanuts for any extended period of time...well, let's just say it's kinda depressing if you get to know some of them.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<I think you're conceding too much. I could count on one hand the number of good attractions that have been added in the past ten years.>> Agreed. And frankly, even the "best" of whats been added in the last 10/20 years doesn't even come close to the stuff that was added in the parks original two decades. Soarin is a great ride, but it's a one trick pony. Compare that to say Horizons, which not only had two huge IMAX screens, but also animatronics, huge sets, an innovative ride-system, and great music. They just don't build them like that anymore.
