Originally Posted By Donny Let me start out by saying I worked for a County that took kennel dogs and turn them into ADA compliant service dogs so when I had been noticing dogs in the park like this one <a href="http://samuelstory.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/shiloh11.jpg" target="_blank">http://samuelstory.files.wordp...oh11.jpg</a> I was taken back by it because we had never seen one like that . As I took the time to watch I did not see the pulling or guideing a way a service dog would for the blind, or carryingring out tasks and the person herself did not seem to have any kind of noticeable disability then I saw another extremly similarular situation with a woman who was strolling and petting her service dog .A friend of mine told me that there are now service dogs for depression .has anyone seen one of these dogs that don't seem to be physicalical disabilities and do you think this should be allowed ????
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Although I am acutely aware of hidden disabilities, the abuse of this system is way bigger then we can imagine. Last week while in WDW I saw a "service" dog that just made me scratch my head. It was a St. Bernard. The thing was as big as a pony and didn't look or act like any animal trained to be a service dog. What could any animal that size do as a service? I'm not saying there isn't any, I'm just at a loss to imagine what. If you need a service dog to combat depression while at Disney World you have some real needs. The ADA rules changed recently and pretty much eliminated what is also classified as a "companion" animal in large public places. They are not trained and can easily get out of control especially if they sense that their master is in some danger. Not a very safe thing for innocent people in close range. In my opinion there is no need for an animal in a place like Disney unless it is for visually impaired folks and, to a much lesser degree, possibly hearing impaired. In the meantime, those that have gotten themselves in a position of pet worship. Who cannot go anyplace without their pooch are lying about disability so that they can gain access to places formerly off-limits to them. Thus, like ETV's everyone that has a legitimate need is look upon judgmentally which makes it uncomfortable for those with real needs. Again the word "entitlement" comes to the surface.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros I've definitely seen a rise in abuse of the system at DLR in the last year or two. While there are still plenty of people there with legitimate service dogs and real needs, I can't count the number of times I've seen a lap dog in a service vest. I've actually heard a couple guests say that you can get the vests online, and that they thought they were cute accessories. Some of these 'service dogs' have even been riding in their owners' purses. People everywhere have been taking their dogs to waaay too many public places in recent years, but it seems like it's especially rampant in southern California. I just don't understand the reason to bring your pet to DL; it's a fun enough place on its own, and a dog just seems like way more trouble than it's worth. On top of torturing your not-service-dog by taking it on Space Mountain with you, do you really want it to spend the day pooping in your purse?
Originally Posted By wdwbobbie Came upon this thread while searching for something else but thought I'd chime in. My son has autism, mild cerebral palsy, and epilepsy. He also just got an autism assistance and seizure alert service dog (black lab) a few months ago. It was a process that took over a year to complete but was worth every last agonizing minute. His service dog detects seizures before they happen as well as aiding in recovery from them (a miracle that brought us to tears the first time we saw it). She is also trained in search and rescue if he wanders off since because of his communication issues from autism he doesn't not respond to his name or people searching for him. There are a few other tasks she is trained to do but I won't go into details, I just wanted to say that in essence if you looked at him, or even us as a family walking down the street, you would probably scratch your head and wonder what the dog was for since all his disabilities are "invisible" and he looks like a typical child. We often get asked if we are training the service dog or which one of us is blind. While he isn't blind she is a life saving tool for our son with her amazing training and it really gets my blood boiling when I overhear people talking about "sneaking" their dogs places saying they are Service Dogs. I've even had some people come up to me and ask where we got her harness so they can get one for their dogs. People who abuse the system like that really ruin it for others. I also want to add that as a pet owner of another dog I would NEVER dream of taking her out into a store, Disney park, etc. Our son's Service Dog had more training that I can imagine and we even spent 2 weeks out of state to be trained on how to be handlers for her. Besides the training there are things you have to consider. It's not always safe for the dog (hot Florida summers for examples) and hauling around all the equipment for the service dog in addition to things for the children is a struggle that I'd not willingly take one (regardless how much I was attached to my pet) if it weren't for our son. Having worked for Disney once upon a time it broke my heart to think we would never be able to take our family without leaving our special needs son at home. Now because of his service dog we are planning our first trip.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Thank you for the insite. That is so great that you can finally enjoy Disney as a family thanks to your service animal.
Originally Posted By Donny Bobbie I would love to print your post out and hand this to the people who bring non-Service dogs to the park. When I worked for the county in Arizona I loved to help the sheriffs possy that would confirm handicap mirror hangers on cars at the mall.The look on these peoples face as the sherifff would tell them to go ahead with their trip to the mall we will tow your vehicle if it comes back counterfet was the best.My point is this probbly needs to be done at the park.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>Having worked for Disney once upon a time it broke my heart to think we would never be able to take our family without leaving our special needs son at home. Now because of his service dog we are planning our first trip.<<< That is precisely why the ruling that people do not have to prove "service dog" status is such a bad idea. It might be a little inconvenient but many things in life are. If all you had to do was verify that this dog was a certified service animal and what its job is you could go to places like Disney without feeling like people are standing in judgment. The guilty people in this scenario are the ones that lie to get there "fake" service animals in with them. They are the ones that made it uncomfortable for those with legitimate needs. Just like a drivers license...a one time verification with Photo Id's of both the service animal and the person it is working for would illuminate all the doubt and the lying and the people that do not care about anyone but themselves. Why wouldn't that be a worthwhile solution?
Originally Posted By Donny I think that would be a great idea unfortunately ADA laws don't allow you to ask for any kind of I.D. but if the animal shows any kind of aggression you can tell the person they need to leave.
Originally Posted By tashajilek You can not judge a dog if you dont know 100%. A lady had a mini Daschund which is the same dog i have which would seem to be the worst candidate for a serice dog. After talking to the lady she told us her dog was a seizure alert dog. Just because a dog isnt a lab doesnt mean it isnt a service dog of some sort. I am sure there are some people who scam to bring their dogs into the park. If i ever brought my dog it probably wouldnt make for a very fun Disney day.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Really. I love my Kenzie more than anything on earth (except my wife). I miss her terribly when I'm on vacation. But would I want to bring her to a Disney Park? No way in heck!! Far more trouble than it would be worth. I think some of you are judging too harshly.
Originally Posted By tashajilek I know for my dog it would be a very traumatic experience with all the people and noises. Most dogs i see at the parks seem well behaved and trained for the situation. It would also suck no being able to go on certain rides.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>I think that would be a great idea unfortunately ADA laws don't allow you to ask for any kind of I.D. but if the animal shows any kind of aggression you can tell the person they need to leave.<<< I know that the ADA laws specify that and the reason they were stated that way was to attempt to eliminate potential embarrassment to the person involved. Well, it hasn't worked that way has it? Now every time they go anywhere that an animal is not usually permitted they get questioned. The questions are...Is that a service animal or a pet? If it is a service animal what service does it provide? These are relatively new amendments to the ADA rulings. So if there was a standardized spot where a person can go, just once, answer and show the proper papers, receive a certified verification, just once that could be shown at the entrance without a word spoken, why wouldn't that be a desirable alternative? It would completely eliminate the confusion, embarrassment of being asked the same questions over and over and as a special bonus stop abuse of what was supposed to be a compassionate law that self involved, insensitive people take advantage of without any fear of challenge. As far as the part about "once an animal shows an aggressive action they can be asked to leave" is concerned, fine time to do that after a child gets bitten or seriously harmed. Good thinking government!
Originally Posted By FerretAfros The difference in guests asking dog owners and Disney asking, is that the guests aren't required to ask anything. They don't HAVE to be obnoxious about it, they just are. There's always a chance that nobody will ask questions or give dirtly looks. By implementing a policy that requires guests to prove something, it requires guests with service animals to go through an extra step just to fit in. While I definitely understand the real-life issues of both sides of this argument, many ADA rules don't consider how 'practical' it is to implement them, and likely never will. >>As far as the part about "once an animal shows an aggressive action they can be asked to leave" is concerned...<< Can we also apply this rule to adults and kids? If they start to be aggressive, we should just kick them out of the parks. I don't understand why we expect dogs to behave better than a lot of guest...
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost Well, in my opinion it is not only not practical it is creating a situation much worse then verifying solidly the need and the acceptance. ADA, in all it's good intentions, was implemented by a group of people with their heads so firmly planted in the sand that it is laughable. The worse part of it is that they won't acknowledge their mistakes and correct them. In the meantime people with disabilities are now subjected to more attention due to the idiocy of the decisions made and no one is willing to correct it. If there was a system established that would take away the feeling of suspicion that blankets all legitimate needs people due to the actions of those that take advantage of every rule with open ends, almost no one would question or make people uncomfortable. It isn't the general public that is having to "question" these folks, it's the people that are trying their best to minimize the abuse that have to ask them. A simple flash of an ID card would completely stop that insanity and create a peaceful process. What is wrong with that? Why wouldn't that be arms and legs above the present undefined procedure?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip In over 25 visits to WDW during the past 20 years I have to say I have honestly NEVER noticed this to be a problem. Now Brazilian tour groups are a different story... don't get me started...
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Now Brazilian tour groups are a different story... don't get me started" LOL, i got to experience this on my first visit.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost It's not a huge problem but it is one that is big enough. Theme parks are one thing public transportation quite another. As a past transit driver, I had to make the call concerning whether or not the claim of "service animal" was legitimate. Most just said get on and didn't care. I felt a responsibility to all my "captive" passengers. If an animal turned on them during a trip, what happens then? It was extremely distracting when my mind should have been concentrating on the road and traffic all around me. A simple ID would have completely eliminated that problem and all could rest comfortably in the knowledge that they were riding with a well trained and professional animal. I don't think that it is right that everyone's rights should be forfeited for the benefit of a few when it would be so easy to identify. And almost completely discreet when it came the people in question. I am, however, a lone voice in a large vacuum that is the government regulatory establishment.
Originally Posted By Donny "A simple ID would have completely eliminated that problem " I so agree and the Dog should have an obvious coller.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan A simple ID would have completely eliminated that problem<< unless people inclined to do so create a fake one. A young boy in my uncle's side of the family has severe peanut allergies. They were able to get a service dog who can sniff out anything with peanut products in it. I'd be careful about assuming the worst -- that people are just bringing their pets to the park, pretending they are service dogs. Not every service dog is the same. Just like not every disability is visible to the casual observer.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>ADA, in all it's good intentions, was implemented by a group of people with their heads so firmly planted in the sand that it is laughable.<< I'm a scoutmaster for a group of visually impaired students. Over the past 4 years working with them, it has made clear to me how important ADA changes have been in allowing them much greater mobility and independence than ever before.
