Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 OK, I posted this in a thread on the DL Board, but it's something I had originally intended to start as a thread here. It's what I think is at the heart of what many Spirits feel is very wrong with the WDW of the 21st century. Show vs. Brand. That's the difference in the Disney parks experience in say 1970, 1980, 1990 or today. I'm not discounting synergy being a part of things, either. Anyone who is old enough to have been at DL in the 1950s can talk about things like the Mouseketeers (they were like the Hannah Montana and JoBros of the 50s, right? ;-)) performing in the Mickey Mouse Club Circus ... and you had Zorro and Davy Crockett ... you even had a castle designed around an animated feature that wasn't even out yet. So, it's not like synergy didn't play a role even in Walt's day. Hell, I think he was one of the first to realize the importance of it when he used his TV show to sell his theme park. BUT ... BUT ... BUT ... In the past 10-15 years, there has been an in your face change in the way Disney does business and runs its P&R businesses. One in which the overriding concept of show and truly providing the best in themed entertainment has been swapped out for one that is all about selling THE DISNEY BRAND in every possible way, often as crass as possible. The quality of the show isn't as important as how many units of vinyl get moved out of the MK in a week ... or how many DVC referrals come out of EPCOT sales booths this week ... or how many outlets at DAK can stock the latest Disney Channel product on CD ... or how many places the characters du jour can be served. It is all about the brand. It's a constant shrill selling job of anything/everything Disney. That's the overriding issue. While quality slips, while Disney Details disappear ... suits sit in cubicles in Burbank dreaming of ways to add more toons, more Muppets and now more Marvel characters into the parks. Whether you think this is a 'problem' or not, I don't see how anyone could visit the MK in 1990 and today and not see huge differences across the board in the way the product is presented. Lee said it himself ... WDW 'is the place where dreams come true' (although with One Disney that tag has been thrown on all the resorts to some extent) ... which brings up things like dreams, wishes, magic and Disney Princesses ... that's a big leap from being 'The Vacation Kingdom of the World' ... or 'The Happiest Place on Earth' in Anaheim. It is all about Disney selling (Disney) all the time. Your thoughts? ... And I'll be adding more the next few days as time allows and thoughts develop.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Agreed in full. They don't seem to realize that the parks themselves have brand power, and have characters that can be sold, and used, and created for profit. Maybe this new HM movie is a change in that.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>It is all about Disney selling (Disney) all the time.<<< This is key. The song "Celebrate You" is a good example. You hear it a lot these days at WDW. I don't want to hear songs created for marketing campaigns inside the park. It completely breaks theme, and it's all about selling the "Disney experience."
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Oddly enough, I don't mind "Celebrate You" used in MK. EPCOT is kind of a rough fit for it, but it fits the parade nicely. And WDW has traditionally had a theme song attached to it's promotion. "Remember the Magic" and "Celebrate the Future" for the 25th and the Millenium Celebration, respectfully.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>Oddly enough, I don't mind "Celebrate You" used in MK.<<< ...and that's why we'll continue to have it and probably more like it in the future. A LOT of work went into making it very "likeable." However, personal taste aside -- the point here is to weigh whether or not it adds to show or sells the brand. For me, it's pretty clear that it's selling brand. You hear the song and see the castle in the commercial. Then, when you're actually there on vacation -- you can hear the song and dance in front of the castle yourself. That's selling an experience, a brand. It's fine on my TV, but please keep it off Main Street USA. It's subtle and well crafted to seem like it's part of the show at MK, but it's really not. In fact, it breaks the theming of Main Street. If that doesn't seem like a big deal, I'd say that's exactly how Disney wants it today.
Originally Posted By magnet >>>And WDW has traditionally had a theme song attached to it's promotion.<<< "Celebrate You" has become so iconic of the current marketing campaign, that when I hear it now I only hear a Disney commercial -- not the message that the song contains. That's when the song becomes compromised. I never remember being offended in such a way before this year, but there have been long gaps in my visits, so this may be standard procedure these days. Regrettable.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Disney parks used to be full of real magic, but Disney have strip mined and commoditised it so that it has become loatheful, especially as the quality isn't even there any longer.
Originally Posted By u k fan I agree with all of post #1 except I want more Muppets in the parks. Your mileage may vary...!!!
Originally Posted By SSE To me it seems like Disney now has the desire to be in your face about letting you know you are in a Disney park. Before it was more about being in another world altogether that Disney just happened to build. So I think for as long as we have the current management it will always be a place to sell what they think is the next big thing. Its not quite about storytelling as much as it used to be and more about how much merchandise they can push or use their marketing department to tell you that you are having a great time.
Originally Posted By Manfried "Disney parks used to be full of real magic, but Disney have strip mined and commoditised it so that it has become loatheful, especially as the quality isn't even there any longer." Ah another cliched statement from someone whose going to the parks too much.
Originally Posted By standor what we need is someone from the Disney family, who grew up with Walt, who understands his thinking, to take over the theme parks and run it the way he wanted it done.
Originally Posted By TTA <<what we need is someone from the Disney family, who grew up with Walt, who understands his thinking, to take over the theme parks and run it the way he wanted it done.>> I'm not sure that would honestly work out in this day and age. Someone who thinks creatively like Walt; without a doubt that would be a major upgrade. However, someone from the Disney family, 2 words, Ron Miller.
Originally Posted By TTA Walt's son in law, whe ran a pretty terrible stretch for WDP in the 70's/80's, and damn near lost the company to a hostile takeover.
Originally Posted By MPierce I have absolutely np problem with them pushing the Disney brand. I would be doing the exact same thing if I was running the show. I have no problem with the Characters running rampant at the Magic Kingdom with meet, and greets, and character meals. Heck if that's what the folks want give it to them. I have no problem when they use the words Celebrate, Magic, Wonderment, Family, Friends, Happiest, Pixie Dust, and any other catch word they can think of to get folks into the Parks, and Hotels. I don't even have a problem with a new celebration/marketing campaign in my face every year. What I do have a problem with is when the marketing campaigns start being the main concern of TWDC, over the quality that Disney once stood for. I do have a problem with the generic one size fits all shopping experience the WDW has been transformered into. I do have a problem when Characters are crawling out of the woodwork at all the Parks, and where meet, and greets, and character meals are substituted for quality Disney attractions. I do have a problem when price points are going up once or twice a year, while the overall entertainment factor is being diminished. I do have a problem with Dining being reduced to a very expensive get them in, get them out experience, with the ever shrinking menus, lower quality of food, and the fact you need to make reservations months in advance. All in the hopes of convincing Guest that the Disney Dining Plan is a wonderful experience, and a must have. I am all for putting the Disney brand out there, but I do have a problem when brand takes precedence over show, and that seems to be the case now to me.
Originally Posted By TTA ^^ Bravo Pierce. I couldn't have stated my (and apparently yours as well) feelings any better than that.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I last visite dthe World in 2003 and to be honest it left me feeling a little "blah". There were some good things there of course. I've been to DL about 4 times since then and I'm still not planning a return trip to the World any time soon.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Manfried - I used to go DL every 4 - 6 weeks between 1974 and 1986. It has been 2 years since I last went to DL. I went to WDW every 5 years and the last trip was just after the malfunctioning EE and Nemo rides opened. I go to DLP once or twice a year (though it used to be every 6-8 weeks). I go less now than ever. And the reason why is the quality is not what it once was. I foolishly hold out hope it will return, and occassionally still see a glimour. My kids love it because they do not know any better (they they like our local Legoland better too). But I think it is interesting that you think it is because we go too often. Ha, not at all. It is because they no longer invest in the experience like they used to. Cut backs on training, cast do their own costume maintanence, not maintaining or cleaning the parks like they used to do, staggered opening and closing unannounced of attractions, every attraction coming out of glenale is either toon, screen or thrill based, god forbid there being any edutainment anymore. The company that exists today had loss sight of the Disney way
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo If Disney put on a show like they used to, I would be there in a heartbeat.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris 1 ""Disney parks used to be full of real magic, but Disney have strip mined and commoditised it so that it has become loatheful, especially as the quality isn't even there any longer." Ah another cliched statement from someone whose going to the parks too much." Based on Dave's reasoned and intelligent posts here over the years, I feel he DESERVES more tha such a patronizing comeback. Say what you will about me(I couldn't give a flying flip)but Dave is a lovely guy and does not just come and spout unreasoned vitriol and flamebait for nothing.
