Originally Posted By RoadTrip I will go against the prevailing "wisdom" and say that Israel won. Yes, now the Arabs really hate Israel and the United States and support Hezbollah. So what has changed there? Hezbollah proved they could chuck missiles at Israel but couldn't aim them. They shot literally thousands of missiles during the 34 days of fighting. They killed 39 Israeli civilians. That's not very good shooting in my book. In fact anyone but an Arab would consider it a complete joke. Hezbollah proved that they could keep from being annihilated by Israel while Israel fought with one hand tied behind its back trying to minimize backlash from the rest of the world. They shouldn't have bothered. Everyone except the United States hates Israel anyway. So in the total scheme of things absolutely nothing has changed. Except I think Hamas and Hezbollah will think twice before kidnapping Israeli soldiers again. Victory: Israel.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 agreed based on the same facts - nothing has changed exept maybe, just maybe a few other countries can now see that Iran and Syria not only have the pruse strings in the area, they pull the strongs of all the leaders -- the guy from Lebanon would give puppets a bad name...
Originally Posted By Mort2 Who won? Funeral Parlors, Weapon Dealers, Building & Reconstruction Contractors
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Bush is calling this a defeat for Hezbollah and remarking how much more dangerous this could have been if Iran had access to nuclear weapons. He calls Lebanon a front on the war on terror as well. Anyone ever hear of Walid Shoebat? He's a former PLO terrorist who converted to Christianity and now is against everything he originally fought for as a terrorist. He was on the radio lat week after the latest London plot was uncovered. He was asked what would he have done right after 9/11, and would he have invaded Iraq. He said going into Afghanistan was fine, but rather than invade Iraq, which he said was pointless, he would have just immediately nuked Iran and dealt with the consequences. He said most of the support, both in terms of money and material comes from there for allsorts of terrorists organizations. Don't know if I agree with everything he said, but he was interesting to hear.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd If this leads to peace everyone wins. If it is just a lull, while the war merchants restock, then we all lose.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Again, not shilling for Shoebat here, but here's his website. <a href="http://www.shoebat.com/" target="_blank">http://www.shoebat.com/</a> Come on, who can shill for guy with a name like Shoebat?
Originally Posted By YourPalEd No nothing has been accomplished. Nothing has changed. As the damage is assessed, the pain sinks in, it turns to anger, and seeks revenge. Just wait til we focus back on iraq. Things aren't quite as happy there.
Originally Posted By Shooba >>Come on, who can shill for guy with a name like Shoebat<< I like the name
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Hezbollah has won and the libs who are running Israel are to blame. I swear, it ws like watching John Kerry try to run a war as Ehud Olmert changed his mind every day on what to do. Typical liberal, all talk but no ability to close the deal. Israel is now in much more danger from the Arabs than ever before because their mystic power of strength has now been shattered. The IDF is no longer feared like it used to be. The fact that Hezbollah is still in the area allowed to re-arm and claim victory is a victory for them. They are shooting fireworks off in Beirut. The Israel of old would have wiped the enemy out in a few days. There would not even be a question " who won? ".
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder ">>Come on, who can shill for guy with a name like Shoebat<< I like the name." It's pronounced Sha-bat, with soft a's, actually.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Of course, everyone knows, this war is pure karl rove, and no one else. The fact that ohlmart is part of this coporate plan goes back over a year and a half of bombs being transfered to israel, while the pullout of all foreign investments in iraq, except for the distilleries, took place. I'm very interested in the cease fire, and how it worked like clockwork. Almost as if everyone took lunch on the companies time. Like both sides of the conflict were manufactured, and hopefully, the company sees, war is not necessary anymore. That would be interesting, could last for thousands of years, if people don't get too lazy.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Hezbollah has won. Israel has gained nothing. They didn't get back the two soldiers that they were demanding to be returned. Hezbollah is still through out Lebanon. Hezbollah can ( and will ) continue to shoot missles into Northern Israel.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom This from Neil Boortz today. <<<Monday, August 14, 2006 THE CEASE FIRE Oh yeah. This is going to work. After a month of fighting which saw a relentless assault on Hezbollah targets -- and just as Israel was preparing to launch a massive ground offensive, they've bowed to international pressure. That's right...Israel has agreed to cease-fire, brokered by the United Nations. It went into effect at 1:00 a.m. Eastern time today. Lebanon is going to send troops to control the southern part of the country now run by Hezbollah, the United Nations is actually going to send capable troops to patrol the area with the Lebanese troops, and Hezbollah is going to be disarmed. Yeah .. that's right. The cease fire agreement calls for the disarmament of Hezbollah. The Lebanese cabinet knows that isn't going to happen .. that's why a meeting to discuss how to go about this task has been, as they say, "indefinitely postponed." If Israel's goal was to eliminate Hezbollah, then they have stopped short of this goal. And why did they do that? Because of pressure....international pressure. Pressure applied by the United States, pressure applied by the United Nations and the Europeans. All of this happened just like the Islamic terrorists in Hezbollah, Iran and Syria wanted it to. The very fact that the head of Hezbollah agreed with the ceasefire tells you how bad it is. How long do you think it will be now before Israel agrees to a prisoner swap? Say ... 1000 Hezbollah for two Israeli soldiers? The goat's milk toasts will be flying big-time in Hezbollah-land. There is not one ounce of doubt in my mind that Hezbollah will use this cease fire to re-strengthen and re-arm. Any belief that Hezbollah will actually disarm is absurd. The goal will remain the same; to destroy Israel and to continue to build the base in the Middle East for an Islamic government that will rule the world. Yeah ---I know. The "rule the world" dream might sound ridiculous to us sitting here at our computer screens in the U.S., but these Islamic radicals see it as a destiny. Bit by bit they're making headway. When they do end up getting pounded, as arguably they are in Lebanon, they will agree to a cease fire, but only as a temporary maneuver to permit them to regain their strength and build for the next battles. When government schools in this country meet demands that Muslim holidays be included on the school calendar, we see it as a seemingly innocent accommodation. Islamic fascists see it as a meaningful victory. When the European Union seriously considers a regulation making it illegal to make a disparaging remark about any religion --- including, of course, the wonderful and peaceful religion of Islam -- another victory. Sure --- they're all small and, you might think, insignificant. You might also think that the world bringing immense pressure on Israel to stop its bombardment of Hezbollah is not really such a big deal. Well, it's hard to say how long you're going to have to wait --- perhaps days or weeks, perhaps months or years -- before Hezbollah strikes again to prove your naivety.>>>
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom This from the Jerusalem Post. <a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525868614&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull" target="_blank">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S atellite?cid=1154525868614&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull</a> <<<Hizbullah claims 'big victory' By ASSOCIATED PRESS Hizbullah distributed leaflets on Monday congratulating Lebanon on its "big victory" and thanking citizens for their patience during the 34-day war with Israel. Supporters of the terror group were seen passing out leaflets to cars heading south on the Zahrani highway, which connects the hard-hit southern cities of Nabatiyeh, Tyre and Sidon. "Congratulations to you on the big victory, with the support of God, the mujahedeen (holy warriors) and your patience," it read. The flyers also warned people not to touch any suspicious objects, which could be unexploded ordnance. Meanwhile, thousands of cars flooded Lebanon's bombed out highways heading south within an hour of a UN cease-fire taking hold, and Lebanese army troops scrambled to repair roads in time for the deluge of refugees returning home. The IDF called on residents of southern Lebanon not to return home until an international force completes its deployment in the region. Thousands of Lebanese headed south on Monday after the cease-fire went into effect. Cars packed with luggage, some with mattresses strapped to the roof, sat in a traffic jam more than a kilometer long on the Zahrani highway, which links the southern cities of Nabatiyeh, Tyre and Sidon. Four or five lines of cars were forced to merge into one lane because of damage to the road. >>>
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525869073&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull" target="_blank">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S atellite?cid=1154525869073&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull</a> <<<LAF to deploy in South within 72 hours' By AP AND JPOST.COM STAFF Lebanon's communications minister told French radio Monday that the Lebanese army was preparing to cross the Litani River into the troubled south within two or three days, despite uncertainty about a future UN force for the region. "The Lebanese army is readying itself along the Litani to cross the river in 48 or 72 hours," Marwan Hamade said on Europe-1 radio. It will then be flanked by "the first contingents of an international force," he added, likely from France, Turkey, Spain and Italy. He did not give a timeframe. He spoke shortly after a UN-imposed cease-fire went into effect across the region, halting a month of fighting. But implementation of the resolution was in question after the Lebanese Cabinet on Sunday indefinitely postponed a crucial meeting dealing with plans for the deployment. Lebanese media reported that the Cabinet was sharply divided over demands that Hizbullah surrender its weapons in the south. Hamade said the Lebanese government would try Monday to find a "formula" for implementing the resolution. Lebanon's industry minister, Pierre Jemayel, a member of a majority anti-Syrian bloc in parliament, told Al-Siyassah daily, "Hizbullah has to deliver its weapons to the Lebanese army, and its light weapons to the police." "Its fighters are welcome to join the military force and the state will then quickly regain control of all Lebanese territories." "I'm not telling Hizbullah to surrender its weapons to Israel, or to the international community," Jemayel told the daily. "(I am telling it) to surrender them to the Lebanese army." Jemayel blamed the guerrilla group for starting the war with its July 12 cross-border raid "without consulting with anyone." Jemayel also took a jab at the sway of Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah. "If the secretary-general of Hizbullah has become the president of Lebanon, he has to let us know," Jemayel said. Lebanon's ambassador to the UN said that his government would not use force to ensure the dismantling of Hizbullah, sources said early Monday morning. He claimed that Hizbullah would independently be responsible for leaving south Lebanon. "We could have completed a cease-fire by Sunday morning, but Israel insisted on destroying the essence of Lebanon," the ambassador commented while being interviewed by CNN. Earlier, another Lebanese cabinet minister said that the Lebanese army would not deploy in southen Lebanon if Hizbullah retains its weapons. "The army will not deploy in the south unless there are no arms in the south except those of a legitimate military force and UNIFIL," the minister said. Hizbullah, however, has resisted calls to disarm and its refusal to follow through threatened the deal. A top aide to Prime Minister Fuad Saniora said the cabinet meeting had been indefinitely postponed but would give no reason.>>>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip So what do you suggest Israel should have done? By any measure they kicked Hezbollah's butt.
Originally Posted By YourPalEd Good info, thanks. I guess nothing has changed. History doesn't change much. Very few names last after a thousand years.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Anyone ever hear of Walid Shoebat? He's a former PLO terrorist who converted to Christianity and now is against everything he originally fought for as a terrorist. He was on the radio lat week after the latest London plot was uncovered. He was asked what would he have done right after 9/11, and would he have invaded Iraq. He said going into Afghanistan was fine, but rather than invade Iraq, which he said was pointless, he would have just immediately nuked Iran and dealt with the consequences.< I did see this guy, and I thought here for once at least is someone with actual insight into both worlds from a first hand experience standpoint, not speculation. Like you I am not sure nuking Iran for instance would have been the right thing, but how much different it is than what is happening and will continue to happen, not sure. He was very interesting
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Hezbollah has won >> That is in direct conflict with what Dubya has said on the matter. Who are you going to vote for now, Beau?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <So what do you suggest Israel should have done? By any measure they kicked Hezbollah's butt. < and for the hawks here, in is probably inevitable that one day there will be a nuclear exchange between Israel and Iran - either before or after Iran is fulled loaded to go..( since Iran's leaders preach their goal is to wipe Israel from the map) - so you will likely get your day, I am not so sure I want to see that in my lifetime, but I am guessing I will.
