Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-01-11T002941Z_01_N10331965_RTRUKOC_0_US-NEWYORK-FIREFIGHTERS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22" target="_blank">http://today.reuters.com/news/ articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2007-01-11T002941Z_01_N10331965_RTRUKOC_0_US-NEWYORK-FIREFIGHTERS.xml&src=rss&rpc=22</a> >>New York firefighters have been forced to strip their lockers American flags, stickers expressing support for U.S. troops in Iraq and cards commemorating firefighters who died in the September 11, attacks, the firefighters' union said on Wednesday. The Uniformed Firefighters Association threatened to sue the New York Fire Department, claiming it violated the free speech rights of New York's 8,800 firefighters and 2,500 fire officers. The action comes under an old policy more strictly enforced since early last month. A fire department spokesman said flags and commemorative cards were allowed but offensive material was not. "Over the past 18 months, the New York City Fire Department has made a concerted effort to eliminate offensive material from firehouses," said spokesman Anthony Sclafani. "However, American flags and mass cards of firefighters killed on September 11, 2001, are certainly permitted." The union said it would distribute 10,000 American flag stickers on Thursday to firefighters to stick on their lockers in protest.<< OK, removing Posters of both genders that folks might think is "Sexist" I understand, but American Flags and folks who were killed during 9/11????
Originally Posted By Darkbeer More on the story.... <a href="http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_010193817.html" target="_blank">http://wcbstv.com/topstories/l ocal_story_010193817.html</a> >>A locker room controversy is erupting within the FDNY. Firefighters have been ordered to remove all personal decorations from the outside of their lockers, including pictures of colleagues killed on 9/11. "We're tired of being treated like children," said Stephen Cassidy, president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association. "It will not continue. If we have to take legal action we will." The fire union is at war with FDNY Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta over a regulation limiting what firefighters can have on the outside of their lockers. "[The regulation] prohibits a firefighter from having an American flag, a 'Support Our Troops' sticker, a picture of their family, a mass card of a dead firefighter," Cassidy said. A department-wide crackdown on locker decorations began several weeks ago after a sexually offensive slogan was found on the outside of a locker at Engine 230 in Brooklyn. But the union claims this time the department went too far. "Two weeks ago they began scraping American flags and anything else that was affixed to a locker off those locker doors," Cassidy said. The union hired civil rights attorney Ron Kuby to fight the regulation. "Nick Scoppetta seems more like an angry high school teacher saying well since one of you did something wrong none of you can post anything on your lockers. You're all going to be punished," Kuby said. The FDNY defended its move. "No city agency should permit the work place to display inappropriate stuff," said Mylan Denerstein, the FDNY's deputy commissioner for legal affairs. After the union complained, the department told union officials it would relent on flags and 9/11 pictures, but on Wednesday officials refused to put that in writing. "It's not necessary," Denerstein said. The union said it's not satisfied with the fire department's response and what's more, Thursday it plans to give every firefighter a flag decal to put on their locker. <<
Originally Posted By DlandJB From the article... <<A fire department spokesman said flags and commemorative cards were allowed but offensive material was not.>> Am I missing something? Why is this wrong?
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Maybe this from the second post... >>"Two weeks ago they began scraping American flags and anything else that was affixed to a locker off those locker doors," Cassidy said.<<
Originally Posted By DlandJB Are the lockers property of the city? They can decide that nothing should be on them then. We were not allowed to put stickers on our lockers in school. It makes a mess. It doesn't mean they are unpatrotic. This is a silly story.
Originally Posted By Jonny626 That is ridiculous and un-American. It's patriotic to display an american flaf and should be encouraged. Plus this is the United States and our military is fighting to protect and presearve our freedom and way of life. We should support them any way possible and be greatful that there are brave individuals willing to risk their lifes for us. 9/11 was a terrible tragity and we should remember all those victims and loved ones lost. I keep pictures of my loved ones on my desk at work as I am sure many other people do. Anyone that says that this is unacceptable really needs to wake up and smell the free air thats provided to them here.
Originally Posted By DlandJB Why can't you display a flag and not deface property at the same time? Why can't they use those vinyl removable flag decals like the one I had in my car?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Sounds to me like: 1). Someone discovered a sexually offensive slogan on the outside of a locker. 2). The Department overreacted and said "okay, nothing on the outside of anyone's locker" and even started removing some things. 3). The firemen said "hey, what about flags or pictures of colleagues lost on 9/11?" 4). The department said, "okay, okay, flags and pictures of colleagues are all right." 5). The union is still complaining about flags and pictures of colleagues, even though they won't be removed any more, because it makes better copy. In other words, pretty much a mole hill that some would like to make into a mountain.
Originally Posted By debtee I thought the firehouse was a second home to these guys? If that's the case they should be allowed to display what they want on their own locker, they spend days there at a time? It's not on public view is it? Of all the things these guys/gals have been through in recent years having stickers and etc on their lockers is the least thing to worry about! Geez!
Originally Posted By Lisann22 It's still the workplace though. I don't think flags and pictures of loved one should have to go but they can't be allowed to have "anything." I do not allow my employees to blaster decals, stickers and such on any of our workplace property; including workbenches, chairs, desks, computers, etc. Everything needs to be able to come off easily - no sticking. We do allow girlie or boy(ie) (LOL) calendars of any kind. No cheerleaders, no fashion models, etc. Stict? Yep. Problems? Nope.
Originally Posted By debtee I understand in a usual workplace Lisa and agree with what you said but if these firemen are like ours in Aus, they sleep over for four nights at a time, so it is an exception to a normal workday where you go home at the end of your shift. If it's out of public view, I still believe it's their locker and the only privacy they get in a dorm situation.
Originally Posted By Lisann22 Do not agree. Especially if you male and female firefighters housed together. It all comes down to what one person finds offensive and another doesn't. The union would be setting themselves up for lawsuits. Sorry do not mean to derail the subject as it is about flags and loved ones things.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I don't think stickers and nudie pics are something a person needs to feel at home. LOL
Originally Posted By Lisann22 No, that's a part of it. I'm not sure if we are talking about the same things here. If one male decides to hang a Rated X version of a girlie calendar on his locker and another male firefighter takes exception to that then it's wrong. It's still the work place, they both have to be there, it's not like either can go away. The picture has to come down.
Originally Posted By debtee <New York firefighters have been forced to strip their lockers American flags, stickers expressing support for U.S. troops in Iraq and cards commemorating firefighters who died in the September 11, attacks, the firefighters' union said on Wednesday.> I thought we were talking about flags and stickers not girlie calendars??
