Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/law-professor-says-sympathy-american-troops-not-rational-220243783.html" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/up...783.html</a> So says a law professor. And you know what he has every right to say that. No matter how wrong I think it maybe. But the reason why he can say that he has no sympathy for them is because they've fought for that very freedom. And read the comments in the story there are some very well thought out comments from our military.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I also had read this article and althought I do not agree with the Law Professor, I will say this. The guy is consistant. So I will give him that.
Originally Posted By fkurucz Our military are mercenaries that defend the interests of America's 1%ers around the globe. We like to think of them as the defenders of "freedom", but most of the world sees them as thugs.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom There is more to this guys message. <a href="http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45323953/ns/us_news-life/" target="_blank">http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/...ws-life/</a> <<Prof. Avery's email, which came in response to a campus-wide message asking for care packages, added: "Why do we continue to have this oversized flag in our lobby? Why are we sending support to the military instead of Americans who are losing their homes, malnourished, unable to get necessary medical care, and suffering from other consequences of poverty?">> Point taken. I had read a story about this guy. But not the one hyperlinked in post #1. This guy had some pretty harsh things to say about our military and their motives. But, I don't think this guy is necessarily evil.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 He's not evil. But he's wrong in his assessment but that's his right. Just as with post 3 it's his right to say what he said. And our military defends that right.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I agree with the prof. While I support our troops and am glad of their service, the double standards of the American public is putrid. Why are not the same levels of respect given to teachers, hospital staff, social workers and others who make sacrifices to improve the common good? Why is supporting our troops right, but providing free school meals, affordable higher education, social medicine etc wrong? Security is not only predicated on the military industrial complex. No other country in the world is so jingoistic about the armed forces other than perhaps China. And most of the enlisted staff are from impoverished backgrounds. We essentially send our poor to fight, and if they return, hopefully they have some education and training to use in the real world. And the us forces behave terribly when outside of America in my experience.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I agree with the prof. While I support our troops and am glad of their service, the double standards of the American public is putrid. Why are not the same levels of respect given to teachers, hospital staff, social workers and others who make sacrifices to improve the common good?>> Because teachers, hospital staff and social workers have HUGELY better working conditions, pay, and do not face death on a daily basis. Please put aside your politics for long enough to realize that these young people have nothing to do with the political decisions that put them where they are and are doing the best they can to do an honorable job and earn a living in a shitty economy. If it weren't for U.S. soldiers most of Europe would be part of Nazi Germany right now. Sure... a few make horrendous mistakes. But what bunch of 19-25 year-old kids wouldn't in an extremely difficult and stressful situation? Dave, you know I usually respect your positions even if I don't agree with them. But you are WAY off the mark on this one!
Originally Posted By patrickegan I concur with road... A tour in Afghanistan is basically a 15 month prison sentence. You can't go anywhere to unwind. If you leave the FOB you risk getting killed or maimed. Here's a nice video tour of a British FOB <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLQ1MEhFjYk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...1MEhFjYk</a>
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I posted that article because I felt the initial hyperlink article was telling half the story. And because I think there is some merit to where the Prof is coming from. I can honestly see someone questioning why that University is soliciting "gifts" for our troops overseas, who's basic needs are being met. When there are individuals right there in Boston who because of poverty, basic needs are not being met. One has to question is there is not some "ego stroking" going on here. I'm sure it is easier to sleep at night knowing your helping our troops while ignoring the consequences of our crumbling economy. What none of these arguement point out is that there is a 3rd option. There is no reason why a card or letter can not be sent to our troops, while "other" sorely needed items can be collected to help those in need in the greater Boston area. Bostonians have a proud history of helping others in need. They are a very generous lot. They immediately came to the aid of Halifax, Nova Scotia when Halifax literally blew up. And were among the first to come to the immediate aid of the Titantic survivors. In fact, one has to question the logic of soliticing gifts from students attending one of the most expensive Universities in the country. The colleges and universities in the Boston area are mega expensive compared to other colleges and universities in the US. I'm a little taken aback that someone thought it was a good idea to solicit gifts from the student body in the first place.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip OK. When I woke up this morning I woke up in bizarro world. I think I need to go back to bed and start over. Now there is something bad about soliciting things for our service people overseas? Young men and women who are thousands of miles away from their families and friends at Christmas? Living in conditions that most of the poor in the United States would find appalling? People who will have a significant probability of facing physical or mental health issues once they finally get back home? People who when they return have one of the highest rates of unemployment of any group in the country? Suddenly it is wrong to want to bring a little happiness at Christmas to people who are truly deserving of it? Yeah, I woke up in bizarro world, that's for sure. And tell me KT... just what government agency or committee are we going to put in charge of determining whether any particular group is worthy of asking for donations at Christmas?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Anything that brings a little bit of home and comfort to a solider overseas I'm all in favor of.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I don't think KT is dissing the troops, and I think his comment: "There is no reason why a card or letter can not be sent to our troops, while "other" sorely needed items can be collected to help those in need in the greater Boston area." has some merit. I have a brother-in-law and brothers of a good friend who collectively have decades in the armed forces. They didn't need basic foodstuffs or even treats (even though they might have appreciated homemade cookies or the like). They were never starving, unlike some Americans here. So I think it depends on what's in the "CARE packages" being described. The veterans I know appreciated the thought most of all - just that someone was thinking of them. A letter or trinket was just as good (or better) than cookies or other edibles. So maybe that's what we should be sending them, and giving actual food/coats/blankets to the desperately poor here who actually don't have them.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 some of these soldiers families ( especially those in national guard groups deployed) are in same siutation while protecting our freedom. Not all companies pay people when they are off...or pay at same level. I remember sending stuff to troops in Vietnam when I was in grade school and high school- and no one questioned if that was OK... the world certainly has changed.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<Yeah, I woke up in bizarro world, that's for sure. And tell me KT... just what government agency or committee are we going to put in charge of determining whether any particular group is worthy of asking for donations at Christmas?>> I have some good friends that are over in the middle east right now. And I can assure you they are not very much intrested in cards, letter, hickory farms cheese and sausage boxes. Their more intrested in something else. But that's another story and they are only guys, so what do you expect. I don't have a problem with any group or organization asking for donations for a specific cause. I do however have some problems when an large entity like a University says they are collecting for a specific cause and gift bearing is implied and not to voluntary. Gifts like anything else should be voluntary and appropriate as the gift bearer deems necessary. I don't know what your financial circumstances are and I think it is just plain wrong to expect the student body to march lock step in support of "your" cause. Regardless of if they can afford it or not. I think the Professor has something worthwile to tell. That doesn't mean I agree with him. And as far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I disagree with the topic. I for the life of me can't see why anyone would say it is irrational to support our troops. If someone doesn't want to support our troops, fine that is their business. But no one should be questioning my reasoning skills or bring my "sanity" into question if I do support our troops.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I remember sending stuff to troops in Vietnam when I was in grade school and high school- and no one questioned if that was OK... the world certainly has changed.> I don't think anyone (but the professor) questioned if it was "okay;" I was making the point that most soldiers value recognition more than food, and food gifts may be better given elsewhere. Soldiers' families, as you say, may actually need the help more.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<I was making the point that most soldiers value recognition more than food,>> Or something else. But, I'm a God fearing christian so you didn't hear that from me. <<and food gifts may be better given elsewhere.>> Obviously <<Soldiers' families, as you say, may actually need the help more.>> Or leave it up the gift bearer as to who or whom they would like to show their gererosity.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I have some good friends that are over in the middle east right now. And I can assure you they are not very much intrested in cards, letter, hickory farms cheese and sausage boxes. Their more intrested in something else. But that's another story and they are only guys, so what do you expect.>> So KT... are you telling us they just wanna get laid? I'm sure they do. Who doesn't? But to paint our servicemen as just a bunch of horn-dogs who care about nothing else is really rather crass, don't you think?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I can only report on the conversations I have had with my military friends in the middle east. You are welcome to draw your own conclusions as to if that holds true for the greater US serviceman (and service women) population serving in the middle east. So as to how my statement hold true to my friends. Nope, don't think it is crass at all.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip KT... I don't feel like "getting into it" so I won't really pursue this. But I assume you realize that there are many who think gay people are just into it for the promiscuous sex and will screw anything that moves, right? Promoting false stereotypes based on the actions of a few is just not right. It really kind of shocks me that you would do so.
