Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Yup. It has come to this. A very small group (less than 10 people) who called themselves the Long Beach Taxpayers Association are taking steps to refer Long Beach city officials to a civil grand jury due to "corruptive" practices. Long story short, they don't like the Democratic leadership and the new police contract that includes significant pension reform, so they want them probed. Un-freaking-believable. <a href="http://www.lbreport.com/news/aug11/lbtagj1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lbreport.com/news/a...agj1.htm</a>
Originally Posted By Donny So you have a problem with a little overstie to make sure the City is not just bowing to the will of the POA.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 From the article: "The recent labor negotiation between the Police Officers Association and the City of Long Beach has added insult to injury. The lack of will by management to negotiate meaningful pension reform for the people became the last straw," Sounds to me like this self-styled "Taxpayers Association" (fewer than 10 people if SPP is correct) took it upon themselves to say that management (the city) wasn't "tough enough" with the police union. Maybe the city and the union reached an agreement they both can live with, as such negotiations are supposed to do. But this group didn't like it and now they're insisting on bringing the court system into it? Am I reading that right, SPP?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "But this group didn't like it and now they're insisting on bringing the court system into it? Am I reading that right, SPP?" Exactly. The leader of this group firmly believes there's a criminal conspiracy to cheat the taxpayer.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "So you have a problem with a little overstie to make sure the City is not just bowing to the will of the POA." I have a problem with people like you not having a clue about what you're talking about and acting like you do, just like these people.
Originally Posted By Donny I except for a mispelled word I think my point was well made and is a valid point.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "I except for a mispelled word I think my point was well made and is a valid point." Irony thy name is "Donny".
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I except for a mispelled word I think my point was well made and is a valid point.> How is it valid? Do you have any evidence at all that there was corruption here? Or are you just taking this self-appointed group's word for it that there "must" have been? Unions and cities negotiate all the time. If some self-appointed group of half a dozen people can involve our already-clogged court system every time a city and a union reach what THEY feel is a mutually acceptable deal but this group doesn't, that's a recipe for chaos. Cities could literally cease to function if cities and their employees get their ALREADY AGREED UPON CONTRACTS dragged through the courts before they can take effect. Do you not see that? It's in the city's interest to not overpay its employees, and it's in the employees' interest to not get underpaid. That's why THEY negotiate. If this half dozen people doesn't like it, that's tough.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda Of course, the real answer here is to disband the Long Beach Police Department so these same 10 people can sue the city for millions when they get their property vandalized or stolen, their persons attacked or killed, etc, etc, etc.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Nah - what's really happening here is the villainization of unions by self-impressed teabaggers. The problem with this is that the anti-union types now have to portray all kinds of decent people as the bad guys - including cops, firemen, teachers, nurses, and EMTs. Doesn't matter - adherence to tea party orthodoxy pre-empts all sense of reason and decency. In this case, the police MUST be corrupt because they have a pension benefit in their contract. And remember, the loudest voice we have in support of this is supposedly a firefighter and EMT with a military background. So chances are he's never earned a paycheck from anyone other than uncle sam, but nevertheless opposes any government spending. That's just how crazy these people are.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan At how much needless expense to the tax payer? I thought tea baggers were supposed to be all about reducing government waste, not creating it.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Exactly. Plus, you don't just go straight to a grand jury. (Correct me if I'm wrong in this type of case, SPP). A DA has to think there's something to this, and start an investigation. Any evidence the LA county DA thinks this has any merit whatsoever? Of course, to these idiots, it's all probably just part of the conspiracy.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Exactly. Plus, you don't just go straight to a grand jury. (Correct me if I'm wrong in this type of case, SPP). A DA has to think there's something to this, and start an investigation. Any evidence the LA county DA thinks this has any merit whatsoever?" In this case they CAN go straight to a civil grand jury, and they've done that on purpose. The 23 members of the Grand Jury will decide if there's anything to what these fruitcakes are alleging, and can hand down indictments if they do. It's hard to explain just how misguided and wrong headed these people are. The wacky old bat that co-founded this little group believes that the Council Members from 2002 (none of whom are now in office) were corrupt public officials who conspired to illegally spike pesnions in 2002, back when things were good. Since then, Orange County actually tried to renege on their contractually obligated raises and pension contributions, and they sued in court to do so, losing every step of the way. The State Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal, saying it isn't unconstitutional to be fiscally imprudent. She now believes the justices are corrupt, because they'll get government pensions too. This try at a grand jury is her way of giving it another go at reneging on bargained for contracts.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Thanks for the clarification. So who acts as prosecutor? The nutjobs themselves?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder That I'm not clear about. I think they just submit paperwork/"evidence" that gets evaluated by the grand jury. it isn't a criminal grand jury, but a civil one.
