Originally Posted By DVC_dad About two years ago I was sold a T1 for my wife's office. We run a Nortel phone system (Voip 6 phone lines and one fax only) with a server, and 10 workstations, VPN to my house and what not, blah blah blah... I have spent a lot of $ making sure we are totally compliant with HIPAA laws concerning safeguarding personal info and whatnot...content filtering, intrusion detection, and prevention, on and on and on. I pay for this, I don't take it on myself. We take our data responsibility very seriously. Okay here is the rub. I got this T1 to run all of this because at the time I was under the impression that T1 meant speed and volume. I wanted to be able to access the server from home, wanted home to operate just as if it were a workstation physically at the office. Okay finally to the point. I have noticed since I got this cool iPhone, at her office, I get basically the same down and up speed with it and although the up speed is fast, the download speed really really stinks. On the T1, I get download speed around 1.5 mb and an upload speed a little faster. At home, I have fast DSL. I get just over 6200 kbps down and 450 kbps up. Bottom line, my home DSL is way way waaaaaaay faster than the T1 at the office. What tha !?!?! I called up my isp today and they said that with T1 it isn't about speed, it's about band width. And it may be slower but it can carry the weight of a lot more traffic and still maintain speed. They said to imagine if all phone lines are being used at once, which they often are, and I am sending a fax, and say 5 of the 10 workstations are using the internet. They said that my current speed for the T1 at 1.5 was great. They said that a DSL connection couldn't handle all of that bandwidth. I replied that if I had old school land line for phones and DSL for internet the phones wouldn't be cutting any speed down. She told me that I was right, and that being honest, if I wanted faster speed I should wait until my contract is up and drop them. Get local land lines phone service with Bell and a fast DSL add-on. Where I need you guys advice is, does this really make sense? What should I do? Is my isp feeding me a bunch of crap?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Is my isp feeding me a bunch of crap? >>> Yes. The argument of "speed vs. bandwidth" is totally bogus. A T1 by definition is 1.5mbps in both directions. DSL can be any speed, and is often different speeds in each direction, but once you know what the numbers are, you can compare them directly to the T1. Having said that, keep in mind that you're sharing the T1 with 6 voice lines and 1 fax line. An uncompressed VOIP line takes about 85kbps/sec in each direction, but in most cases does so only when the line is actually in use. You have to subtract that from the line speed to find what you can actually use for data. But the T1 vs DSL speed comparison is only measuring the "last mile" between your ISP and your premise. You also have to consider the quality of the ISP service being provided. Are you able to get the full bandwidth of your pipe all the way out to the Internet in both directions whenever you need it? The answer may vary between ISPs, and may even vary within ISPs, especially for one like a telco which may have several different platforms. Another thing to consider is reliability. Part of the reason a T1 costs a lot more than DSL is that it comes with an expected level of reliability that's much higher than DSL. If a DSL line goes down, it will likely be repaired only during business hours, and possibly several days away depending on the repair workload. A T1 is expected to work 24/7. If your line were to go down suddenly at 3am on a Sunday, your local phone company actually has a tech or two on duty sitting in a truck somewhere that can come immediately and fix the problem (assuming that the problem is in the "last mile" and not at the ISP). Actually, I don't know if this is true strictly speaking during graveyard anymore, but it certainly is true during second shift. Actually, there's one LPer that would know the answer to this question, and he may want to chime in. So, one thing to consider if you're running VOIP and considering DSL vs T1, is what your expectation and needs are for repair should the line go down.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda One of the things one learns as a network engineer is the differences between the terms "bandwidth" and "throughput". One can be considered theoretical, while the other is actual. A good explanation of the terms can be found here: <a href="http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=871448" target="_blank">http://everything2.com/index.p l?node_id=871448</a> That put aside though, there are a few things to consider. One is cost. While, yes, a T1 is going to be more expensive per month then DSL or cable, you need to determine what the cost would be if you moved to DSL, dumped VOIP, and moved to POTS (plain old telephone system) lines for your phones. You may find that there isn't, or not much of, a savings. Another thing to consider is reliability and "up time". As a business customer using a T1, you will get priority in service calls over DSL or cable. Do you need that type of reliability? VOIP traffic potentially can take up a lot of your throughput. Also, because of the type of traffic, it must be given priority over other types of traffic otherwise those on the phone will notice degradation in quality. What some companies have done (assuming they can afford it, of course) is to have dedicated circuits for VOIP traffic. This is something you may want to consider as well. Just some things to chew on.
Originally Posted By avromark If you do consider the switch to DSL/FIOS/Business Cable modem, keep in mind that while a Business account will cost more (and probably have soft cap limits) a business account is usually guaranteed differently. Some ISP's may include a form of "insurance" where they offer some compensation when your Internet goes down. As stated earlier the Switching/DSLAM/etc can vary within the same ISP. With Cable the more people connected to your node the slower your speed (Some Cable companies will tell you how "full" your node is. Node = Loop. In your DSL it depends on the quality of the Copper (Or Fiber Optic for example Verizon FIOS (not to be confused with Verizon DSL) and the distance from the switch. Keep in mind that the distance from the switch isn't always as the physical street/address runs down the road. The Wire can run any which way depending on when it was laid, who was given priority etc. Verizon for example runs PPPoE in some areas whereas some older areas will run DOCSIS), here Bell uses PPPoE, Rogers DOCSIS). You should also inquire if you have a static or dynamic IP. For most business purposes a static is usually preferred, makes VPN's etc easier. So 2 people with DSL on the same street and same package can actually end up with very different experiences. You won't know until you actually get hooked up (Sales won't tell you, the Tech may not even know until he hooks you up). If your on good terms with other tenants in your wifes building see if they'll share what service they're with. Your on the right path to investigate your options early. I know that one of the offices I consult with (About 500 workstations and VOIP phones) Runs multiple T1/T3 lines. I'm sure Joe or Ann or Doobie etc. will chime in later with more good advice.
Originally Posted By avromark As well with POTS you may require new equipment. The other thing to consider is how long it would take to complete the switch. If you do switch will your service ready date be guaranteed? I know of some businesses being up you know what when they switched and weren't provided with service for in one case over a month... (Replacing lines etc). You may also need to run new phone wire if your building wasn't properly equipped... Fun ain't it?
Originally Posted By peeaanuut i think everything was just about covered. DSL is very dependant on the distance from the local station in your neighborhood. The beauty of a T1 is that 99% of the time you will get 1.54, whereas DSL gets moody. Sometimes fast and sometimes slow. Another thing people dont concider is the other side they are connecting to. You can have the fastest line in the house but if your connecting to johnnyhostcompany and they run off of dial-up your only gonna get dial-up speeds, whereas connecting to a fast server such as Google, your speeds will be very fast. Also the route that you take to get to any particular server can be 30-50 hops. Heck, it might take your phone only 3 hops to get out to a public server but your home internet could take 10 to get out. Thats where quality of service comes in. lets say I am running a server from home on my cable line. To get to my server you have to first get out of your services network, take a few hops along public servers, than connect to my service, bounce around in there for a bit till you get to my server. Now granted that each hop is only a few milliseconds, but the more you add the time does add-up. Also you have to concider what your phone is connecting to vs what your home server is connecting to. On my personal website, the mobile site is about 1/30 the size of the regular full service page. That equates to quite a bit of speed when talking T1 or less. However going back to DVC dad I would say get a 2nd data line for your phone system if costs permit. Also, to go on the throughput vs speed argument. Someone told me a good analogy. Think of a freeway. You have 6 lanes going in one direction, that is alot of throughput, but if its rush hour, even with all that throughput the speeds are slow. Now think of a drag strip. Very fast speeds, but only 2 lanes. The trick is to find the healthy balance. Good speeds with alot of throughput.
Originally Posted By JeffG The other posters here have given good advice regarding the T1 versus DSL, but there is another factor that hasn't been mentioned. You said that you were measuring the upload/download speeds on your iPhone, so I presume you are connecting to wifi networks both at home and at the office. Even if the Internet line going into the office is faster than the one at your house (which is likely the case with a T1 versus DSL), the wireless network could be a substantial limiting factor. There are three current standards for wifi (a new, faster standard is expected to be ratified later this year), each of which has different maximum transfer rates. The three standards are: 802.11a: This maxes out at 23Mbits/sec and is a fairly high range system largely used for industrial/corporate applications. The iPhone can't connect to 802.11a networks, so it is pretty certain that neither your home or office network uses it. 802.11b: This is actually the most widespread and highest-compatibility standard. It maxes out at 11Mbps. Pretty much any consumer wifi device currently available is compatible with 802.11b networks. 802.11g: This is a higher speed standard that was adopted a few years ago. It maxes out at 54Mbps. Most currently available consumer routers and newer wifi devices are 802.11g compliant. Under standard settings, an 802.11g router will automatically fall back to 802.11b if a device that isn't 802.11g compatible connects to it. The important point here, though, is that >every< device on the network will only be able to use 802.11b speeds if even just one device is not 802.11g compatible. The speeds that I gave above for each of the standards are only the theoretical maximums. In the real world, data transfers are going to be slower, often by quite a bit. You really are only going to get the maximum if there is only one device connected to the network and it is positioned so close to the router that the signal is at maximum strength. What this means is that the wifi network at your wife's office may be substantially slower than the one you have at home, depending on the number and type of devices connected to each network. Let's say you only have 1 PC and the iPhone connected to your home network and both are able to connect at 802.11g. That means that the two devices are basically sharing something pretty close to the full 54Mbps of bandwidth. In fact, if the other PC is pretty much idle, the iPhone might even be able to exchange data with the router pretty much at that full speed. By contrast, if several people all have laptops connected to the office wifi network, the iPhone might only be able to use a much smaller portion of the bandwidth. Furthermore, if even one device on that network is an 802.11b device, then the maximum speed drops from 54Mbps to only 11Mbps. If you really want to measure the true speeds of the two networks, you should connect a PC directly to the router via a wired connection, make sure no other devices are active, and then measure the upload/download speeds from there. -Jeff
Originally Posted By EdisYoda Thanks for pointing that out Jeff... I totally missed the wireless piece of this puzzle.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Jeff- I am glad for that information on WiFi. At home, I do use WiFi but only for my laptop and my iPhone. The rest of the house has a true ethernet network, and all of my kids computers and my desktop connetct directly to one of four switches and then those into a 4 port router/DSL modem combo thing. But I am now infromed as to exactly why my kids desktops are so much faster than my laptop, but I like the freedom of being able to move from the kitchen to the den and so on. Now at the office, we ONLY use wired connections, like home, almost every room has a data port and all of those go to one 20-something port switch, then that somehow ties into our phone system, and all of that goes into a "Manged switch" that the isp provided for the T1, and I think that switch then runs through a sonic wall device or something like that, not exactly sure exactly how all of that mess works...But for securtiy reasons, we don't have wireless access at the office at all. If I use my internet at work on the iPhone (and I really don't) I use the EDGE connection. So, desktop computer on T1 vs. iPhone edge....I'll wait until I'm on the road to use the iPhone for internet or email. I think for now, all things considered, I will leave well enough alone. We are under contract with our isp for another 8 months anyway. I guess at the end of the day, I just wish 1.5 was more like the 6 I seem to get at home, at least in my "last mile" My DSL really is (while certainly NOT as reliable) a helofalot faster than the T1 at the office. I recall the T1 going down one day during business hours, and someone came out and fixed whatever it was within one hour. I was impressed with that. Like you said, the DSL may have been down a lot longer. I have had SEVERAL complete outtages with my home DSL over the past two years, while only one very very short problem with the T1 in four years. About reliability, with POTS and DSL, I do need reliability more than "extra" speed. Now that I understand more, I think I am pretty happy afterall with the T1. Thank you all so much for giving me the heads up. I at least know enough to talk to my isp. I know that we have a static ip with the T1 and I think my line speed with the T1 is 1.3 down and 1.5 up. I guess from what you guys have said, that's pretty good.
Originally Posted By avromark Sonic Wall I think is a firewall device isn't it? You know you can always plug your laptop in when you're at your desk for example. Don't have to just rely on the wireless connection. T1 is your Internet Connection I'm guessing your computers are on a 100 or 1000 Ethernet (Cat 6 wiring) connection. So between computers the speed would be faster then the Internet (Ie transferring files/ connecting to print server). Of course I don't know what type of work your wife does (I think you said legal), but do her associates need blazing speed. If they do that's another thing to consider (this is why large companies ensure they have enough "speed and reliability" on their connections, since slow work can actually cost them money, not just outages. Home reliability my DSL connection (only a 6 it sucked) went down briefly daily it seemed, I haven't rebooted my cable modem at either home. Guess I'm lucky If anyone uses VPN for example @ work, a static IP is nice. But for a gamer who keeps getting banned on connections a dynamic IP is better. And yes don't buy Wireless N until they ratify the standard. But when it does MIMO will rock (Multiple In, Multiple Out). Right now different brand equipment doesn't always like to talk to each other. Think of MIMO like having several driveways to your home instead of one, if one is blocked, just pick another one.
