Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/2012-04-09/CDC-teen-birth/54140178/1" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/news/h...140178/1</a> It's going down, but remains among the highest of industrialized nations. The states and the ethnic groups with the highest pregnancy rate also rate among the most religious and the most poorly educated. This ought to be a strong indictment against the " leave it out of the schools" types, especially since we all have a stake in this.
Originally Posted By mele Unfortunately, the people who need to hear this are the same people who simply do not care and won't accept any facts that go against their twisted beliefs.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Uneducated and religious is exactly what the GOP is looking for among their women.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< This ought to be a strong indictment against the " leave it out of the schools" types >>> Repeat after me: "Abstinence is the only form of birth control that's 100% effective."
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 ^^ Yes, it is, and kids should be taught that abstinence is the only form of birth control (or STD prevention) that is 100% effective. However, many kids will choose to have sex, and they need to be taught how to do so as safely as possible.
Originally Posted By SuperDry That's where you're wrong. Kids would never get the idea to have sex but not for the libs pushing sex education in the public schools upon them.
Originally Posted By dshyates The Magic Book of Morals VS Biological Science. Even in Mississippi science is winning. And the more they teach from the Magic Book of Morals the more biology will win. "If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that life will not be contained. Life breaks free, expands to new territories, and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously, but, ah, well, there it is." Dr. Ian Malcolm-Jurassic Park
Originally Posted By TomSawyer We evolved to want to have sex in our teenage years, and to have the physical capability to become pregnant. For most of human history, having kids as a teenager was the rule rather than the exception. Since the Industrial Revolution, we're focused on earning money and being a productive cog in the economic machine. We see teenage pregnancy as a flaw in our nature. And it is true that you are more likely to have limited prospects to be able to support yourself and to provide for your kids if you have them too early. Unfortunately, our economic system is at odds with the biological imperative to reproduce. We are more likely to be successful today if we delay reproduction, but we're asking a group of people in the age that is the most self-oriented and gratification seeking of any other to reject what their bodies are telling them in favor of greater rewards in the future. The best we can hope for is to teach them how to have sex without getting pregnant. Give them a chance.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <We evolved to want to have sex in our teenage years, and to have the physical capability to become pregnant. For most of human history, having kids as a teenager was the rule rather than the exception.> Not only the rule, the expectation. Most people only lived into their 30's for most of human history. You pretty much had to start reproducing as a teen, so at the ripe old age of 30 you could arrange the marriages for your 14 and 15 year olds, and they could start. <Unfortunately, our economic system is at odds with the biological imperative to reproduce.> Exactly right. It IS a problem for teens to have kids today, but for most of human history it wasn't. Not only the economic system has changed, but the family/child rearing structure as well. The whole village really did used to look after all the kids, and people lived in extended families with grandma and grandpa and aunts and uncles pitching in too. People tend to forget this when insisting that teen sex is a bad, bad thing. The biological imperative is going to trump the economic system that has existed for a relative blip of time. I think we CAN ask them to abstain. Some people do. But we have to understand that a certain percentage simply will not. There's the biological imperative. There's the still-unfinished judgment centers of the brain. There's the desire to be independent/feel grown-up/impulse to sometimes do exactly what your parents tell you not to do. Some teens are going to have sex. And we have to make sure that those who do know how to prevent pregnancy and STD's.
Originally Posted By EmmaJayne I have never understood the lack of sex ed in schools across the US. I attended a strict Christian grammar school and although we were taught to abstain until marriage, keep your heart pure etc, we were also taught how to use condoms ( on a platic penis toy that was case in a plastic banana of all things) about the contraceptive pill, the morning after pill and so on. They covered all their bases because they'd be foolish not to. Teens at my school definitely had sex but there's been no teen pregnancy there for as long as I can remember ( I've still got family at said school and still no Juno's there).. When working at summer camp in PA I was horrified by how little our senior campers (15-16) seemed to know about contraception etc.. It was frightening as so many of them were sexually active. Sex Ed in schools doesn't encourage teens to have sex but makes sure they know how to be sage about it if they choose to.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Knowledge is power, keeping kids in the dark is not going to help them make intelligent choices, or even moral ones.
Originally Posted By mele It just seems to boil down to the fact that a large part of the population does not want women to have sex outside of marriage or to have any say on whether they want to experience the joys of motherhood once they are married. Sex is something that should only be enjoyed by a married man and woman. Everything else is a no-no. If you *do* happen to have sex, then you must not be prepared in any way, no birth control, no education, no morning after pills, no abortion, no assistance to help you take care of the baby once you're forced to carry it. No, you must pay for your dirty sinning...and they're just the people to make sure you DO pay. Eternal Hell isn't enough; they'll make life on Earth hell, too. I don't think most politicians believe this (or have any intention of living by these ideas) but they're more than happy to pander to the people who do. I totally understand why people are against abortions, especially late term abortions (which I believe are really, really rare and nearly always, if not completely, done for health reasons.) But many people are also against any form of birth control and want to make it difficult, if not impossible, for women to get. WHAT?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>It just seems to boil down to the fact that a large part of the population does not want women to have sex outside of marriage<< I love and agree with your post, except this. What makes it all so maddening is the power a small minority of zealots have. These people are a relatively small percentage of our population, yet their zealotry and religious certainty ends up with them in places where they can actually affect this stuff. Say what you will about religious certititude, it's power. If you're a nice moderate Christian who basically believes the Bible but understands it's also largely metaphor, you're not going to be so inclined to run for office, demonizing anyone who doesn't agree with you along the way.
Originally Posted By mele Yeah, I contradicted myself there...I think there might be a large part of the population who SAYS they believe in no-premarital sex, etc. but don't live by it. I think the group who truly believe it are extremely vocal, which makes them seem larger. Sorry, I wasn't clearer. There are so many lovely, moderate Christians. I wish they were louder...but then, generally nice people have better things to do than worry about what other people do in their bedrooms. ;-)
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Sorry, I wasn't clearer.<< Oh, don't be. I was mostly just using you as a jumping off point for my rant I mean, even if we're dealing with 20% of the population, that's still like sixty million people. I think that's what throws me off - it's a small percentage relatively speaking...but damned if these crazies don't seem like there everywhere.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb I think it's closer to a vocal 5%, but that's still 15 million people. It amazes me the laws some of these guys are trying to push through. Just because many of us are against abortion as birth control doesn't mean we are going to support law makers that are trying to take away rights we fought for and earned more almost a half century ago. I'm thinking a lot of these guys are going to find themselves out of their office next time they run. I know I can't support these lawmakers. Of course around here the Republicans know not to attempt these archaic laws, so there isn't much I can do vote wise about these fanatics.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Proof reading is difficult on my phone, please mentally edit the extraneous "more" out of that post.
