Thank You Libertarians!!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by RoadTrip, May 30, 2016.

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  1. RoadTrip

    RoadTrip Active Member

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    The Libertarians and Gary Johnson may just save us from having a President Trump. A significant percentage of voters are willing to consider voting for a third party. Johnson, as a two-term Republican governor, is probably going to draw more Trump voters than Clinton voters. They may have just saved us!!

    :) :)
     
  2. mawnck

    mawnck Well-Known Member

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    It's the Bernie voters I'm afraid are going to stampede to Johnson. They seem to be becoming just as unmoored from the constraints of reality as the Trumpsters are.
     
  3. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

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    I know exactly what you're getting at. My hope is that a). Sanders eventually asks his followers to vote for Clinton with as much oomph as Clinton asked her followers to vote for Obama in 2008, and b). The people coming unmoored (and yes, I read their comments on the internet too) turn out to be a very loud, very obnoxious, very repetitive, but relatively small minority. Put another way, the people to whom Clinton was a decidedly second choice but who will have no problem voting for her may not be burning up the comments boards with the same fervor as the unmoored, and the latter group's passion - veering into "unmooredness" - may be creating the illusion that they're a larger group than they are. And in the end the former proves to be a much larger (but quieter) group.

    That's my hope, anyway.
     
  4. KyleBurbank

    KyleBurbank Administrator
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    The polls released that look at 2-way vs. 3-way race so far indicate Johnson pulls from both equally, with some even showing him taking more from Hillary. Of course that doesn't really say much when no one knows who he is yet, but I think there's a chance it does stay pretty equal.
     
  5. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

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    I've entered the phase of the election process where I just want to climb into a cave with my security blanket and hibernate until 2020. Maybe 2024.
     
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  6. mawnck

    mawnck Well-Known Member

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    I used to think the same thing about Republicans.
     
  7. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

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    There's no question the wackos have taken at least temporary control of the Republican party. I'm hoping the same isn't true of the Bernie supporters.

    I said this a couple of weeks ago when the polls tightened and people started freaking, but let's see where things stand a couple of weeks AFTER the CA/NJ primaries, after Clinton becomes the presumptive candidate. We'll have a better idea how Sanders himself is reacting, as well as his supporters. I would guess that she'll open up her lead a little bit again, but I could be wrong. We're in a weird moment now where the GOP electorate is closing ranks behind Trump (even if not all the elites are), yet there's a pretty good slice of the Democratic electorate still holding out hope for Sanders.
     
  8. iamsally

    iamsally Well-Known Member

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    Ommagod!!! When Bush got appointed I was like, holy crap, if he serves 8 years I will be 55, yuck! Well, I somehow survived, sort of anyway, and here I am again sooooooo much older. Eight years of Trump and I will be 71. I can't take it. I may crawl in a hole and pull the hole in after me.
     
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  9. iamsally

    iamsally Well-Known Member

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    Oh, did I stray off topic?!? You make a valid point RT and I hope beyond hope that you are right.
     
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  10. Mr. X

    Mr. X Active Member

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    Abject fear of a Trump administration?

    Naw...I think that's on topic for any sane human being. ;)
     
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  11. skinnerbox

    skinnerbox Member

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    The three-ring circus of Trump media coverage is turning off large swaths of citizens across the country. I believe the vast silent majority is simply waiting for November to roll around, so they can cast their ballots against Trump. Anybody but Trump.

    Will Johnson pull in a fair number? Perhaps. But many folks remember how the Nader vote in Florida screwed up that state's tally. Nader siphoned off 4% of Dems, many of whom probably would have voted for Gore had Nader not run. Even if only 1% of the Nader people had voted for Gore, the recount never would have happened and Bush wouldn't have become POTUS.

    But that was 16 years ago, so I doubt the under 30 crowd will remember how that mess played out. I can see Johnson getting the BoB supporters, especially the Bernie Bros under 30, maybe the majority of them. And I'm only worried about them with regard to another Nader/Gore/Bush scenario playing out.

    For most states, I doubt the Johnson third party run would matter. But there's always that one situation, like Florida in 2000, where the potential for a monkey wrench being tossed into the machinery is ever present. :eek:
     
  12. iamsally

    iamsally Well-Known Member

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    I wish I were too young to remember that. I actually found my self being glad that my father died in Sept. 2000 and did not have to live through it. It would have taken him over the edge.:eek:
     
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  13. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    I voted for Johnson last election and I'll certainly be voting for him again.
     
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  14. Mr. X

    Mr. X Active Member

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    It doesn't concern you that such a vote may help usher in a Trump administration?
     
  15. DAR1974

    DAR1974 Active Member

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    I've heard from Trump supporters that just allows a Hillary victory. Sorry I wouldn't in a million years vote for either Trump or Hillary. I've looked over Johnson's platform and from a fiscal and social standpoint he just makes the most sense.
     
  16. Mr. X

    Mr. X Active Member

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    It's great that you feel that way, it really is, but you do realize he can't possibly win. Right?

    That being the case, if you don't vote *for* the strongest possible opponent of Trump, you're helping Trump.

    I appreciate third party appeal, and most years I would fully support your commitment to supporting extreme outsiders — but this year, of all years, is the year we all need to buck up and take responsibility for protecting our damned country imho.

    FWIW, I hate Hillary too. I really, really do. But I'll be casting *my* vote against Trump this time around. He's simply too dangerous to do otherwise.

    If that means Hillary, I'll vote for her. But if there's a stronger contender, more likely to beat Trump, I'll vote for him/her. Hell, I'll cast a vote for freaking Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, or whatever other normal Republican might be likely to beat him if that's what it takes. Sometimes it's important to vote *against*, and this is one of those times.

    You're not just throwing away your vote this time DAR...you're helping to usher in a dangerous man.

    Hope you're okay with that.

    Just sayin...
     
    #16 Mr. X, Jun 3, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  17. Dabob2

    Dabob2 Well-Known Member

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    If it helps, DAR, here's what noted conservative humorist P.J. O'Rourke had to say about it:

    "I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises," O'Rourke continued. "It's the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she's way behind in second place. She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters."

    He went on:

    "This man just can't be president," O'Rourke said, alluding to the nuclear codes the commander-in-chief takes control of upon assuming office. "They've got this button — this briefcase. He's going to find it."

    Like Mr. X, I respect your tendency to vote for someone you actually like rather than someone you don't. I get that. And if last time you said "Well, I don't really like Obama or Romney, so I'll vote for Johnson," I'd understand that. Even if it helped deliver a purplish state like Wisconsin to Romney... we could have (as a country) lived with Romney. Like O'Rourke said about Clinton, to me Romney would have been "wrong about absolutely everything, but wrong within normal parameters."

    That's not the case this time with Trump, however. Trump is a different animal. Completely unqualified, would be in way over his head (but his ego would never admit it), never admits error (a very dangerous quality in an actual president), and flies off the handle often about the smallest things (ditto). He's not suited for the job in any way, and he'd do actual damage to the country. That's what Mr. X is saying, and I have to say I concur.

    I imagine you'll vote for Johnson anyway, but I'd ask you to consider carefully, and consider holding your nose and voting for someone you don't like this time. This time IS different.
     
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  18. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

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    >> She's wrong about absolutely everything, but she's wrong within normal parameters.<<

    LOL! That is awesome.
     
  19. Kar2oonman

    Kar2oonman Active Member

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    I get where DAR is coming from. It sucks to vote against the lesser of two evils all the time, and if he things Gary Johnson is a better choice, go for it. I think in this election, a third party candidate probably draws about as much from Trump and Clinton since both carry high negative numbers.
     
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  20. skinnerbox

    skinnerbox Member

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    The folks voting against Trump and Clinton who were around for the Bush/Gore/Nader debacle know precisely what they're doing. We've had too many Celebrity Apologists like Michael Moore express their regret over promoting Nader, which cost Gore the election.

    So if anyone who was old enough to have voted 16 years ago, like DAR, is now endorsing Johnson... they know full well what the potential outcome could be. And they're counting on it.

    Some men just want to watch the world burn.
     

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