Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Frontline's "College Inc." is a scary look into the next financial crisis. There is a staggering amount of federal student loan debt, especially debt taken by students to fund "education" at for-profit "colleges" such as University of Phoenix. <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/collegeinc/" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...legeinc/</a> There are parallels to the housing crisis. In the housing crisis, people were essentially pushed toward bad loans that they could never afford in the long run. No standards, just high pressure sales tactics. In the for-profit college industry, prospective students are pushed into very expensive but mediocre programs using high pressure sales tactics. There are no standards, just incentives to get students enrolled. The average for-profit college student has something like $31,000 worth of debt. Some for-profit colleges earn the vast majority of their revenues through federal student loans. All they need is a body, someone to convince that taking on huge amounts of debt from the federal student aid program is worthwhile. Once the student enrolls, they find that the curriculum isn't what they were lead to believe. Doesn't matter. The college already got paid. The official statistics say that under 10% of graduates of for-profit colleges default on their monster loans. However, the colleges use fuzzy methods to calculating that percentage. Some pundits have put the default rate as high as 50%. If the choice is between going to a University of Phoenix or doing nothing, you are better off doing nothing.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney I always see that universtiy advertised online. Is it ONLY just online or is there a campus as well, but you have an option? Has anyone here ever gone or taken classes for it? How credible is it? And yeah, I went back to school two years ago, WITHOUT school loans. I just saved it all by myself. I remember my undergraduate loan and how I owed $10,000 basically. Pretty cheap when you consider the average student owes on loans, but I hated owing that much. Even though it took amount of years and 10's of thousands to save, end of the day I finished grad school with little money owed to anyone and I dont have to worry about the next 5-10 years trying to pay it off now. Of course, thats not an option for most people obviously and maybe you dont want to save for years to go, but I dont want to think of the ridiculous amount of money you spend, interest fees, etc that you spend 10 years paying off for 1-2 years of schooling for another degree. If you're going to school to be a doctor or something, thats different and you are going to make that money back and more in a few years anyway. I know there is some kind of revamped student loan initiative Obama is suppose to be exploring because it needs it. I have a few friends doing Masters and PHD programs who probably took out $40+ grand and with the interest set in, that stresses them out as much as the workload. I wouldnt mind going back to school if I had too, but knowing I WOULD probably have to take out a loan would just keep me away. So unless I'm buying a house, I just prefer to pay for it on my own unless its under 5 grand or something I can pay back within a year. Saving is better, but I'm very patient!
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I graduated from UOP and while i'm quite satisfied with the education I received, I can attest to the fact that the loans are huge burden right now. Still, UOP is much less expensive than a ground based education in my area.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Hans, where do you live? I admit to not knowing much about other states, but in California a public college education is very affordable and among the best in the nation. The community college, CSU and UC systems all have something to offer. If you claim residency in California there is no reason to choose a for-profit institution like UOP over Cal State, University of California or even a junior college. I am pursuing my masters at CSUF and I have heard varying opinions on whether or not what I'm doing is right, but one thing I know for sure is that it's a hell of a lot better than University of Phoenix. There is no comparison. "I have a few friends doing Masters and PHD programs who probably took out $40+ grand and with the interest set in, that stresses them out as much as the workload." Whether that was a good idea or not depends on what they are doing and whether or not their assessment of their personal talent and work ethnic was correct. My girlfriend has $100,000 in student loan debt. However, she graduated from UCLA School of Law, passed the bar exam on her first try and completed a clerkship with one of the most respected judges in California. She is currently a practicing attorney, not *exactly* where she wants to be, but she is in a good position if this recession ever ends. Nursing students at for-profit colleges cannot get a job because they never step foot in a hospital.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones The most insidious thing the for-profit college lobbyist said on Frontline is this idea that the "traditional" institutions have given up on students, that traditional college is only for the elite and well-to-do. It's a bunch of crap. They prey on the desperate and the poor. They lie to them to push them into tens and sometimes thousands of dollars of debt. Part of the problem is that the federal government enables them to do this by allowing students from mediocre colleges to qualify for federal aid. And the community colleges are broke because the country didn't come through with the funding they promised.
Originally Posted By imadisneygal "Nursing students at for-profit colleges cannot get a job because they never step foot in a hospital." While this may be true at some all online for-profit colleges, this is not true for the Accelerated BSN Program here at UoP in San Diego. Students not only attend all classes in person, but clinical courses are all in person through the local hospital systems including Sharp, Kaiser, and the Navy Hospital. Registered Nurses graduating with a BSN from UoP here have a very good hire rate.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Back around 1991 or 1992 at the Broadway Horton Plaza in San Diego I caught the Director of Admissions for the University of Phoenix shoplifting a hat that he stuffed down his pants. He did it right underneath our big two-way window. Just thought I'd mention that.
Originally Posted By fkurucz Food for thought: Students loans cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy. Sooner or later borrowers will pay them back, even if it means garnished wages.
Originally Posted By Altadisdude It's not that nursing students without clinical experience couldn't find a job(I'm sure someone would hire them on the cheap if they could) it's that every state I know of requires nursing students to have a certain amount of clinical experience to be licensed. I'm a UoP graduate, and lets just say that after I graduated I had to get my wife to sign me up through her work(she is a nurse) to become a nursing assistant. After years of looking before the economy crashed I never got one interview from the hundreds of applications I put out with my new bachelor's degree from UoP. I was lucky because I didn't take out student loans. My mom paid for my classes. I now am going to a local community college, and have already found a job relating to my major a year before I graduate.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Students loans cannot be discharged in a bankruptcy. Sooner or later borrowers will pay them back, even if it means garnished wages." Yup. And even if they're being paid in a Chapter 13, the interest accrual that is stayed while the plan is paid still accrues outside the plan. In other words, once the debt would be paid off in a bankruptcy, the debtor then has to pay off the interest that added up for five years.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Hans, where do you live? I admit to not knowing much about other states, but in California a public college education is very affordable and among the best in the nation. The community college, CSU and UC systems all have something to offer." I live in San Francisco and have a full time job. There was no way that I could have attended Cal State here with the schedule I keep. To keep costs down I did complete most of my general education courses at a local community college, saving my major courses for UOP. "After years of looking before the economy crashed I never got one interview from the hundreds of applications I put out with my new bachelor's degree from UoP." Interesting, although I'm not surprised given your course of study. My sister has a bachelor's and a master's in Accounting from UoP and she's never had a problem securing a job in her field. "Sooner or later borrowers will pay them back, even if it means garnished wages." Yep, and where this whole loan thing has been an issue for me is not the overall cost of my education, but the fact that the economy tanked and my income isn't what it was when I decided to return to school. I would had second thoughts about accepting the loan had I suspected that things were going to take such a drastic downturn.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I think we have an unrealistic expectation that we can go to college in four years and to not have to work while we are taking classes. The students who are taking out loans to pay for living expenses are the ones who are going to have the biggest problems. Also those students who are borrowing tons of money for a career that is low-paying are making a really bad decision. My niece and nephew were made to save half of every cent they earned or were given as a gift from the day they were born. My niece started college four years ago with $25,000 in the bank and between working through school and her savings she got her nursing degree without any debt. Now she has her first nursing job making $25 + an hour and has no loans to pay off. Maybe it will take you more than 4 years to get your degree. Maybe you'll have to work weekends instead of going to parties. Maybe you'll be tired. I'm slowly completing my degree, taking classes online through Washington State University while also working full time. My employer pays tuition reimbursement up to a certain amount and I'm maxing that out every year. It is hard to have homework and assignments and to balance out work, home and family responsibilities, but it can be done. College shouldn't be easy, but it also shouldn't hobble you with debt.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "I think we have an unrealistic expectation that we can go to college in four years and to not have to work while we are taking classes." I agree, and I think everyone's situation is different. You did say that you are taking courses online, so obviously that option is more convenient for you than going to the classroom. By the way, anyone who thinks taking classes online at UoP is easy is kidding themselves. It was incredibly strenuous and far more challenging and required more involvement than any of the course work I took at Cal State or at a community college.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Do not be dissuaded from loans if you are pulling down a 3.7 GPA and are committed to your field of choice. I believe the risk is worth it if you are intelligent and hard working. In this situation, you also probably qualify for scholarships and merit-based grants that reduce the amount you would have to borrow. Don't take out loans if you know you aren't cut out for college. It takes an honest assessment of your skills and determination to make that choice. However, you should look into community college as well as fee waivers, federal work study and need-based grants. In my college career I received both merit-based and need-based grants, scholarships and fee waivers. I also worked. I do not come from an elite family or a well-to-do one and my parents did not pay for college. I went through the California community college system and transferred to the Cal State system. It can be done. It is sad when people turn to for-profit colleges that advertise heavily and use high-pressure sales tactics. However, I also understand that they are enabled by awful educational policies on the state and federal level.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I'm not championing UoP, but I honestly never felt pressured into attending. In fact I did quite a bit of research before deciding to enroll and I really have no regrets.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 Here in WA (I do not know about other places) the community colleges have transfer agreements with the state universities. I am going back to school this quarter and it is only $80 a credit to attend as an in-state resident. Because I have entered the transfer program, after I complete the two-year degree requirements, I can enter a four year university as a junior and save a lot of money. This route is available to all students in the state. Students should look into all the options available to them and factor in the costs of each before deciding on what they want to do. My husband went to UoP and is happy about the school but we are still paying ff his loans. My education will be less than half what his was.
