Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/05/23/vacation.in.america/index.html?hpt=P1&iref=NS1" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL...iref=NS1</a> This is just pathetic. Seriously, Americans have got to wake up and realize that their business worship only hurts them. 25% of Americans don't get any paid vacation time and the average worker only gets two weeks. In other parts of the world, it's a minimum of four and often ends up being six or eight weeks. But instead of seeing something like this as a call to action to demand better from companies, Americans will beat their chest and insist that this is somehow more American and they don't want some namby-pamby European way of doing stuff. The American Protestant work tradition sucks.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ya, because we are really lazy elsewhere (having worked 35 hours in 2 days last week). But it is funny, divorce rates are higher in the US, death on retirement rates are higher, and the amount of ignorance about the world is increadible. And as I travel around Europe, often the Americans we meet are either: a) College Kids, maybe high school from private schools b) a family trying to squeeze a day or 2 out while dad is working over here. c) Military families that rarely leave the base (I wish I were kidding) d) Retirees (this is about 95% - how sad) e) Very wealthy folks that seem to try to hard to show off, tip too much, and are obsessed with shopping. Stereotypes, but sad, all the same. Travelling is an awesome part of an education (the greatest IMHO), and a great way of keeping families close. And this is the top reason (along with social systems in health and medication) why I chose to raise my children in Europe and not the US.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>e) Very wealthy folks that seem to try to hard to show off, tip too much, and are obsessed with shopping.<< My wife is in Italy right now on a photo workshop. The guy who runs it has been so kind to her and so helpful. And then they all got their with their group and she says he turned into that quintessential rude American that no one can stand.
Originally Posted By ecdc And this article described my work perfectly. I get three weeks a year, so a bit above average, but that took six years to earn. And while I can get away with (and do) not checking email, it's frowned upon. Not officially, of course. But it's one of the ways they check how much flare you're wearing. Do work on vacation? You're wearing a lotta flare.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>But instead of seeing something like this as a call to action to demand better from companies, Americans will beat their chest and insist that this is somehow more American and they don't want some namby-pamby European way of doing stuff.<< Yep, and continue to wonder why other countries have citizens who are better educated and well-rounded. I think most Americans feel somewhat guilty taking a vacation most of the time, or at least threatened that they are "out of the loop" for a few days and could suffer for taking off a week or two. The go-go-go mindset we have in this country is the next bubble, it cannot go on forever.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>But it's one of the ways they check how much flare you're wearing. Do work on vacation? You're wearing a lotta flare.<< LOL! That's a great analogy. And sadly, very accurate.
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Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I used to get 5 weeks a year. When I set my own firm up, I tried to set my pricing and work load so I could be with my kids more in their vacation time. In two weeks time, I will have been in busines for two years. In that time I have taken 3 weeks at Easter, at least 2 weeks in Summer (was 5 last year), two weeks at Christmas, and some days here and there to go to school plays, sports days, or to volunteer teach in the school. While money might be tighter as a result, I know it has made the family stronger and given my kids the exposure to many more things. Including having a son that is autistic and was 18 months behind when I made the transition to being top of the school in math, and advanced in reading. To me, that is far more important. when I die, if there is money, or possessions, what good will it have done? But if I have touched the lives of many, experienced a full life, and left a real meaningful legacy for my children to build on, then I think that is much better. Once I was given grief here in the UK for going on vacation for 2 weeks not long after joining a firm. They knew about it before they took me on, and we agreed I could have the time off. I was pestered on my mobile every day until I switched it off. When I got back, I was chewed out for the cost of the phone bill (100% work related) and then the fact that the only way they could get me were messages at the hotel. I resigned, citing that while my career is important, my family is more so.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>LOL! That's a great analogy. And sadly, very accurate.<< Sometimes I wonder if people who don't work at corporations but talk about how great they are have any clue.... It is a bizarre, insulated environment where up can be down and black is often white. Normal people, people you'd love to hang out with on the weekends...they change at work. I just don't get it. I don't know how people manage to care so much about their work when their work...just doesn't matter. People act like they're curing cancer. Maybe it's just me - all part of my ongoing quest to never fit in anywhere
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I think it is sad and telling on the CNN story, the comments are things like: "I am glad I only have a week's vacation" "we are already so entitled, why do we deserve vacation time" And the scariest of all: "There is no where I want to go or places I want to see" How sad.....
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And the scariest of all: "There is no where I want to go or places I want to see"*** Agreed. Scary AND sad at the same time!
Originally Posted By Mr X I found this an interesting quote... "Maybe the fact that the Europeans want everything given to them without having to work very hard has created the economic nightmare in the European countries" Now, that's a subject worthy of debate (DOES the amount of vacation have something to do with crashing economies? any data on that?), but the thing I found most interesting is the anti-European sentiment. I've spoken to some hardliners about this, and they simply LOVE to bash Europe whenever issues like time off, health care, quality education etc., come up in the conversation.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo It is jealousy, coupled with propaganda and a view of what Europe was like 200+ years ago. The amount of questions I field when I go back to the States that are opinions based on what people were told by GI's here in war time (not every brit has bad teeth, not every Frenchman smells of garlic). I have to say, when I moved to the UK in 1986, it felt like the UK was 20 years behind the US when it came to service and capital. When I last went to the US 4 years ago, it felt like the US was 10-20 years behind the UK. It was so sad. I am really saddened by the fact that the stpid right wing government is currently looking to US models for health and education reform, despite the fact we score better on international quality ratings. I am fighting tooth and nail to stop it.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>"Maybe the fact that the Europeans want everything given to them without having to work very hard has created the economic nightmare in the European countries"<<< But we are ok with paying 72% tax on our fuel to invest in offsetting carbon emmissions. 20% sales tax. 50% income tax for earners on >$150k a year. They forget about that. Or about the fact some of us do not mind paying for education, medical, or social services we might not use if it means it is there for a cheaper rate for the disadvantaged that need it. While America screams blue murder about taxes. I wonder which is the more selfish model?
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 ""Maybe the fact that the Europeans want everything given to them without having to work very hard has created the economic nightmare in the European countries" Now, that's a subject worthy of debate (DOES the amount of vacation have something to do with crashing economies? any data on that?), but the thing I found most interesting is the anti-European sentiment." I feel like saying to people like that "Well, then what made our economy so bad? We do not take much vacation at all, and our economy went to hell too." Plus, there have been many studies that say that when employees are happy and less stressed out they are much more productive. So really, giving employees things like vacations and paid family leave (which is the norm in many countries, especially for maternity, but very few US companies offer) would actually help the economy by creating a more productive workforce.
