Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/11/navarrette/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/ 11/navarrette/index.html</a> This is an interesting column that suggests some of those opposed to immigration are racists cloaking themselves in the arguments of border security and jobs for Americans. It's an argument that's long struck a chord with me. I have no doubt that many, perhaps most Americans are concerned about border security and jobs, but there are those for whom it's about good old fashioned racism - they don't want those "dirty Mexicans" coming over, speaking Spanish, and bringing their culture with them.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, living in South Florida I'm not a big fan of ILLEGAL immigration. I've got no problem with people coming here legally, paying their taxes and contributing to society. My ancestors did it. I do have a problem with people coming here ILLEGALY, taxing our resources and expecting to be catered to. If that makes me a racist then, so be it.
Originally Posted By barboy Opposing Mexican immigration has nothing to do with race/ethnicity and everything to do with culture/behavior/economic status.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Immigration is a legal process. These individuals who are in this country illegally whether they be Marsian, Mexican or Dotted Swiss have no intrest in respecting the laws of this land. Becides, individuals don't set the Immigration laws of this land, the US Congess, the US Senate and the President do all that for us. If your going to call anyone racist I suggest you start there. As for me, I would much rather this this country enforce the Immigration Laws we currently have in place. Furthermore, if the US Federal Government is so recluntant to enforce the existing Immigration Laws. Why would I think they are going to enforce any new Immigration Laws? Also, ALL the proposals for changes in Immigration ONLY EFFECT ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE. THOSE FROM MEXICO. How are the "proposed changes" in the Immigration Laws going to effect anyone else from ANY other country? I'll answer my own questions. It won't! Now explain to me how that NOT Racist. Oh and for those following along. I ment to assuse OUR current US Representative, US Senate and President of being RACIST.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>Also, ALL the proposals for changes in Immigration ONLY EFFECT ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE. THOSE FROM MEXICO. How are the "proposed changes" in the Immigration Laws going to effect anyone else from ANY other country? I'll answer my own questions. It won'<< This is a lie. There are Mexican-specific proposals, but the major proposal is a general proposal for all undocumented immigrants in the US based on when they arrived.
Originally Posted By fkurucz How about these arguments: 1) Don't we already have enough sprawl, air pollution, traffic jams and green house gas emissions? Won't adding another 150-200 million people by 2050 just make these problems much worse? 2) How does importing tens of millions of unskilled, illiterate immigrants strengthen our nation's position in the technology age? Are we saying that the US can only function if it has a huge underclass? 3) Illegal immigrants displace blue collar native workers by depressing wages. The black community has been especially affected by this. 4) Our healthcare system is slowly collapsing under the increasing burden of providing healthcare services to illegals who cannot pay for their care. 5) We are already falling behind other nations in education quality, and we are having to divert limited resources to educate illegals, often in their native language.
Originally Posted By ecdc I don't live in California or Florida, so I don't (at least now) have a dog in this fight. Honestly. And I think many, if not most, of the arguments opposing illegal immigration have tremendous merit, including those already mentioned. But speaking frankly, I think too many people use those arguments to cover up their own racism. Why am I so confident in saying this? Because, I'll confess, I've been guilty of it myself. I can look within and recognize when someone who is different rubs me the wrong way, troubles me, or annoys me. I've had moments in my life where I've had interactions with Hispanic immigrants and I've been put off by them simply because of the way they look, the way they dress, and the way they sound when they speak Spanish. It's a natural sociological response to those who are different, but one I'm not remotely proud of.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<This is a lie. There are Mexican-specific proposals, but the major proposal is a general proposal for all undocumented immigrants in the US based on when they arrived.>> No, its the truth. You just won't admit to it because that would be admitting that your racist. All proposals allow millions of Mexicans into this country each year. While holding the numbers of immigrants from other nations constant.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I'm just trying to follow your logic. 1) Anyone who believes that the laws of this land be enforced, is Racist. 2) Even though our current Immigration Laws that treat all immigrants in a fair, equatable manner despite their country of origin needs to be changed. So that New Immigrantion Laws be created that CLEARLY favor the people from one country "MEXICO". Anyone who opposes these changes must be Racist. No Spin there. <sarcasm>
Originally Posted By RC Collins I'm sure there is a tiny percentage of the anti-illegal immigration movement that is racist. However, I think there is a highter percentage in the "pro"-illegal immigration movement that is racist, such as MECHA - they are racist against "whites." The huge majority of those against illegal immigration are not racist. They do not want illegal aliens to come here from anywhere, including from areas their own ancestors came from. For example, there are Mexican Americans (some of them legal immigrants, others born in the U.S.) who are very much against illegal immigration. I enjoy the Latino cultures. But I'm opposed to illegal immigration as long as we have the systems that we do. If we're going to have tax-funded Social Security, medical care, education, transportation systems and roads, etc. and payroll taxes, then we have to control immigration and regulate employment. In southern California, traffic conditions are ***abysmal*** ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. Public schools are overwhelmed with children who don't speak English and spend much of their summer in Mexico. We're asked to conserve electricity and water because we have too many people here who aren't supposed to be here, so the infrastructure has not kept up with them. Emergency rooms and entire hospitals are closing mainly due to being overwhelmed by illegal aliens who do not pay for their own care (via insurance). When we had the March of the Criminals (uh, the May 1 rallies), traffic conditions were excellent because we saw what it is supposed to be like around here. Now, if we had a more libertarian system, I wouldn't care who hired whom or who came here, as long as the border was secure as far as people bringing in contraband and disease. But since we have opted to have public funding and government involvement in everything, we must oppose illegal immigration. If you think that is racist, then open all of the doors and windows to your home and let anyone wander in and out as they please, taking whatever they heck they want. Locking your door must mean that you are a racist.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>I don't live in California or Florida, so I don't (at least now) have a dog in this fight. Honestly.<< Its not just California and Florida. Its more than even the obvious SW border states. This is a nationl problem. For instance, roughly half of Colorado's population growth this decade has been fueled by illegal immigrants. My sister is a bilingual teacher in North Carolina and she tells me how the numbers of illegals there grows at vertiginous pace. And before anyone accuses me of being racist, I am Mexican.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>All proposals allow millions of Mexicans into this country each yea<< Evidence, please. Until you provide it, this is still a lie.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>if we had a more libertarian system<< From some of your other posts, you claim to be Catholic. According to the clear teaching of the Church, Catholicism and libertarianism are completely incompatible. And for the record, Catholicism and socialism are also completely incompatible. I suggest you go back to CCD or RCIA...or at least read the Catechism.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom My post # 9 says it all. <<<I'm just trying to follow your logic. 1) Anyone who believes that the laws of this land be enforced, is Racist. 2) Even though our current Immigration Laws that treat all immigrants in a fair, equatable manner despite their country of origin needs to be changed. So that New Immigrantion Laws be created that CLEARLY favor the people from one country "MEXICO". Anyone who opposes these changes must be Racist. No Spin there. <sarcasm>>>> Now explain to me again how someone who is asking the the laws of this land be enforced is Racist.
Originally Posted By cmpaley I'm sorry, I don't think you got what I was saying. You made the statement that only people from Mexico would benefit from immigration reform. PROVE IT. Until you do, I will continue to contend that you're lying.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom Answer my question. Are people who are asking that the laws of this land be enfored Racist?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I think its safe to say that most Americans know that you need a visa to be in this country legally. <<< the major proposal is a general proposal for all undocumented immigrants in the US based on when they arrived.>>> Specifically designed to benefit the estimated 20 MILLION Mexicans here illegally.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Again, back up your claim. Source your claims (with reputable sources, not "FAIRUS" or CIS). Maybe he can't.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom ? I'm suppose to back up my claim that the "undocumented immigrants" that you cite are perdominately Mexican? I quess what your saying is that its OK for you to make the assumption that "many people" who ask that the laws of this land be enforced are Racist. But its a lie if I make the assumtion that the "undocumented immigrants" in questions are predomantely Mexican? No spin here <sarcasm>
