Originally Posted By mawnck Interesting short video about human brains: <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7299406n&tag=cbsnewsVideoArea.0" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/video/w...eoArea.0</a>
Originally Posted By Labuda Interesting video, yes, but maybe this is just me being sleepy : what does it have to do with World Events?
Originally Posted By ecdc Oh Labuda, I'd say it's right up WE's alley. Really, at its core, what we are usually discussing here is the inability of millions of people to believe facts or truth. Helping to understand why someone like Glenn Beck, who's short on facts but long on fear, is so successful, is important if we want to combat irrationality or misinformation. It can't just be a link that says "here's the truth," it requires deeper persuasion that appeals to human emotion.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I think lying has pretty much been proven to cross party affiliation. Whether is is WMDs, Swift Boats, Cigars or Affairs it seems like we as Americans have come to exect it and, therefore, condone it.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I think lying has pretty much been proven to cross party affiliation.<< Defensive much?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper No, I'm not defensive. I haven't lied. WAit, that is a lie. Ok, so I've lied but never any really bad lies. ecdc pointed out Glenn Beck (whom I avoid to the same degree that I avoid Rachel Maddow) and his lies which I don't disagree with. I simply stated that lying has become the national past time and it doesn't seem to matter if you have an (R), (D), or (I) after your name.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<I simply stated that lying has become the national past time and it doesn't seem to matter if you have an (R), (D), or (I) after your name.>> But how can you claim this without evidence to back it up? We've discussed this on here countless times, but the facts just don't seem to support the claim that all parties lie the same amount. I'm just not seeing any evidence to support that claim.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 And we should also be mindful of the audience that the "liar" commands. For better or for worse, people like Glenn Beck have far more influence, and can spread their lies much farther, than most members of Congress. That has to be taken into account when you start trying to quantify the level of lying going on in each party. The Democrats, and Independents, just don't have someone with that level of an audience that consistently lies to the public.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, I have not done a certified study. But, I also didn't make any sort of claim that all parties lie the same amount. I simply said that lying doesn't seem to be immune from the (R), (D) or (I).
Originally Posted By wahooskipper But are you suggesting plp that that the lying is more offensive depending on how many people are listening to the lie? That seems kind of strange to me.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<But are you suggesting plp that that the lying is more offensive depending on how many people are listening to the lie?>> Not more offensive - more dangerous. A lie told to a small crowd is still a lie, but the damage caused is probably considerably less than if you can convince millions of people of something that isn't true. Take the "Birther" example - if that nonsense had stayed amongst a few people, we probably wouldn't have heard much fuss. But you have people with access to millions of listeners spreading that lie, and suddenly we have millions of Americans questioning the legitimacy of the president. And the examples go on - Death Panels, Obama taking your guns away, Obama being a Socialist, etc.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But are you suggesting plp that that the lying is more offensive depending on how many people are listening to the lie? That seems kind of strange to me.<< I think this whole conversation is based on a false premise: The inverse of fact was quickly labeled "lies," but that's not necessarily the case. The whole point of mawnck's video and of someone like Glenn Beck is that they don't see it as lying. I don't think Glenn Beck believes he's lying (usually at least). The issue isn't lying, it's truthiness. It's the belief in something that, despite its falsehood, persists because of fear or because it just "feels" true. Christians like Beck promote the notion that the Founding Fathers were divinely inspired by Jesus and were Christian themselves because it "feels right," even though it's factually inaccurate. This has been quantified as much more of a conservative problem when it comes to politics. Non-partisan fact-check groups are spending far more time debunking right-wing myths than left-wing, particularly email chains and talk radio. And yes, the issue being discussed does matter. Truthiness around WMDs (it just felt right that Saddam had them, didn't it?) is a much bigger issue than truthiness around something else.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, no matter how many people are listening to the Birther nonsense...I'd argue that nobody is being hurt by that lie. Either way, my point about all of this was to suggest that we, as a society, have gotten a bit immune to lying. Steroids, no-to-happy marriages, WMDs, blue dresses, etc have all, in my opinion, led us to this point of unprecedented distrust of our elected officials. President Obama promised transparency in the health care debate yet most of the meetings were behind closed doors. President Bush promised WMDs as a reason to go to war yet none were found. I'd just like to see more honesty...period.
Originally Posted By mawnck >> the Birther nonsense...I'd argue that nobody is being hurt by that lie.<< <a href="http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/02/01/33787.htm" target="_blank">http://www.courthousenews.com/...3787.htm</a> >>I'd just like to see more honesty...period.<< That's what Glenn Beck says. And look at what he considers "honesty." Re: Post 14 .... This.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well, no matter how many people are listening to the Birther nonsense...I'd argue that nobody is being hurt by that lie.<< Well again, is it a "lie" in the sense that the people who believe it know it to be false? I define a lie as knowing what the truth is but deliberately saying something else. Bill Clinton lied unequivocally when he said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman." But birthers actually believe Obama wasn't born in the U.S. Which in some ways is much worse. If someone is lying, it means they know the truth. If someone is deluded, it means they don't, which is much harder to deal with in some ways. As for harm, when you have more than 50% of the opposition who believes that the President isn't even a citizen who's eligible to be President, that makes it pretty tough to solve actual issues. People obsess over phantom problems at the expense of real problems.
Originally Posted By mawnck You can't come up with a good solution unless you can identify the right problem. If the stock market were to collapse tomorrow, how many Americans would believe it was part of a conspiracy by the Obama administration to turn the country Communist? And what would be the result of that belief?
Originally Posted By plpeters70 << I don't think Glenn Beck believes he's lying (usually at least).>> I have a hard time believing that. Glen Beck has a lot of people working on his show, and I'm sure some of them could actually show him, and the producers, that Glenn is full of crap. But I seriously think they like the ratings Glenn brings, so deliberately ignore the bad stuff, while promoting the less controversial things,
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But I seriously think they like the ratings Glenn brings<< I think a lot of us who follow politics closely and are passionate about it might be surprised to learn how little a role ideology can play. Is Beck about ideology? Certainly. But are those around him, working for him or his shows? Doubtful. For most of these people, it's business and money. I've interned for a Congressman, my dad's a lobbyist. Most of these people are not about right and wrong and what's best for America. They're about the day to day business of politics and the money it brings in.
