Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Wow. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CR5139AXnE&feature=popular" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...=popular</a> Crazy train, now departing on track 3.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I can't see the youtube video but I'm assuming you are talking about Jesse Ventura. He is saying an awful lot of things right now to sell a book but a lot of his political ideas aren't far from many of my own beliefs. And, that is how he got elected in Minnesota. He thinks the two party system is the death of us...and I think he is right.
Originally Posted By hopemax The video is to Jesse Ventura...talking on the View about the American conspiracies...including how 9/11 was an inside job, Kennedy, etc. Basically, anything bad that has happened to this country is a government conspiracy and cover up.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Well, there is no doubt in my mind that SOME things have involved conspiracy and cover up. I heard Ventura on Larry King Live last week and he was sort of walking a fine line. Something like, "I'm just reporting what is fact and some fact that is not popularly known and then it is up to the reader to decide." I met the City Manager for the community that Ventura was mayor in before he went on the governor. He said he was a beast to work for. But, I do agree with him that there is too much money in politics. I agree that the current system with two parties works against America...and not for us.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 It sure would be nice if someone would stand up for a third party who had a strong personality and some charisma but that did NOT veer to close to crazyville too often (see also Perot, Ross).
Originally Posted By mele <<Something like, "I'm just reporting what is fact and some fact that is not popularly known and then it is up to the reader to decide.">> Yeah, I think it's the "some fact that is not popularly known" line where he gets pretty shady. LOL
Originally Posted By fkurucz FWIW Ross Perot called offshoring for what it was (the giant sucking sound of jobs disappearing) and was ridiculed for doing so. Of course his quirky personality and overall lack of charisma didn't help. I doubt Abraham Lincoln would be electable in today's political environment.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Perot was one of those mixtures I was talking about; made a lot if sense much of the time. And then just went off the deep end, which unfortunately made a lot of people disregard the things he said that made sense. A saner Perot could probably get a lot of votes.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Um, let's keep some facts in order. Ross Perot wasn't ridiculed for criticizing offshoring. He had a very populist message and seemed to be a breath of fresh air at that time, and many people felt he was saying exactly what most Americans were thinking in regards to offshoring, taxes, the economy. In fact, he was growing in popularity when he went off the rails with claims that the first Bush administration was going to sabotage his daughter's wedding somehow and exited the presidential race. (He later re-entered, credibility damagaed but still siphoned off a sizeable chunk of Bush votes.) He was ridiculed about that stuff -- and his flip chart delivery, of course -- but not for the actual message until the nutty goodness showed up.
Originally Posted By ecdc I actually read an interesting theory about Americans and conspiracy theories. It basically argued that Americans love fake, fantastical conspiracies - JFK (sorry folks, Oswald was the lone gunman), moon landing, and now 9/11 - but ignore real conspiracies or refuse to care or get outraged by them. We've had a series of real conspiracies in our recent history. And while more people are familiar with the Gulf of Tonkin or Watergate, plenty still don't know about Iran Contra or accept the facts surrounding the Iraq War. The information and evidence is readily available - take the case of the Iraq War. Yet Americans would rather believe that Saddam Hussein was partly responsible for 9/11 than understand what really happened in our government to go to war. There is not a shred of evidence of a conspiracy in the case of JFK, the moon landing, or 9/11. But those are the ones people believe in and follow.
Originally Posted By pecos bill Ventura is about a 50/50 split with me. I like a lot of things he says and then he drifts off into conspiracy land and discredits himself. It's tough to take the guy seriously.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Jesse Ventura is a crackpot when it comes to 9/11 and some other conspiracies, but I thought he was a good governor. He is totally for gay marriage, marijuana legalization, and seems like an all around good guy when you get away from the conspiracy nonsense. He also made light rail in Minnesota a priority, which is what I like.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>seems like an all around good guy when you get away from the conspiracy nonsense<< But buying into every nutty conspiracy theory of the last 50 years doesn't do a lot to bolster someone's credibility. It's not just a little nonsense, either, he seems to go for all of it.
Originally Posted By Mr X Sometimes conspiracy theories DO have legs. And, I wouldn't presume to have more info at hand than a Governor would potentially have... That's all I'll say about THAT.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>But buying into every nutty conspiracy theory of the last 50 years doesn't do a lot to bolster someone's credibility. It's not just a little nonsense, either, he seems to go for all of it.<< Exactly. How can we not question someone's judgment, fact-checking skills, critical thinking skills etc., when they double-down on this stuff. It's one thing if someone who hasn't really read about it hears rumors or claims from the conspiracy theorists and then says they believe it. But anyone who reads this stuff and is familiar with it ought to be able to analyze the myriad of flaws without too much trouble. It's really no different than me saying, "Well, John Edwards sure has some great ideas about the poor and how to run the country, aside from all that stuff that happened with his wife." I think John Edwards is spot-on when he talks about two Americas and the poor, but I'd never vote for him for President, or even as head of a World of Warcraft guild, since his judgment is clearly so poor. You can't separate that kind of thing from a person's character and ability to lead.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Maybe it's because the one conspiracy theory I find so repellent is one he really trumpets. That 9/11 was some sort of "inside job." When we visited NYC last summer, we passed by the WTC site just about every day. Spent a great deal of time looking at the displays in the church next to the site that became at first a gathering place for people looking for loved ones, and later a place to grieve their loss. There were some vendors here and there that had set up shop around the site selling maudlin "keepsakes", which was bad enough. But one day a noisy bunch of these conspiracy nutjobs were out in force, hollering out their nonsense, handing out pamphlets. I'm sure New Yorkers have grown used to this stuff but it really shocked and angered us. So when Ventura starts going off about this stuff, it brings back those same resentful emotions in me.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "You can't separate that kind of thing from a person's character and ability to lead." You can't, but I can. Just look as Ventura's governorship. Did he do anything that makes you believe that he was making decisions based on his crazy conspiracy theories? I don't think so. The guy seemed like a not great but not bad kind of governor. Probably could have worked with the legislature more but, hey, who cares it's Michigan. Clinton got oral from an intern but he was a good president. I don't really care.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Probably could have worked with the legislature more but, hey, who cares it's Michigan. << That's Minnesota.... or was it? Maybe Detriot was cleverly disguised by CIA operatives and poor Jesse was never in Minnesota at all during his term. Why would they do that? Who would stand to gain from such a nefarious plot? Someone has to ask these questions!
