Originally Posted By DLer It seems inevitable that a system such as Fastpass will be used to deliver a system of preferred entry for guests who have qualified for that special access - it would seem logical that Disney would offer such a benefit to those customers who are paying top dollar for their accomodations and dining at Disney-run resort properties. For those that bemoan the passing of the concept of "every man is equal" in terms of waiting in line, take a look around you and see what the world looks like today: special lines and/or limited waiting for "preferred" passengers at the airlines; special freeway lanes for those willing to pay exhorbitant toll fees for faster transit along crowded routes; special lounges and perks for hotel guests paying premium prices to stay on "concierge" levels. The Disney Fastpass system provides the vehicle by which Disney can offer a product that appeals to those willing to pay extra for such services, just as airlines, hotels, freeways and sports franchises offer special benefits for those willing to pay premium prices for a higher level of service. Such things are simply now a fact of life in this country and it would not be surprising in the least that Disney would eventually provide such a service.
Originally Posted By Mr X **expensive on site -- all stars etc ?** VBDad, All-Stars is ABSOLUTELY expensive, are you kidding? It's a gaudily dressed up Motel-6, nothing more. For what, $100 a night or something?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Anyway, FP does not create a dual class anything*** ***When FP distribution ends for the day, it does create a dual class*** Interesting way to look at it, on both sides. Thanks all for your comments. I would say that it DOES somewhat create a dual class in that you've got the people who "did their homework" and know how to operate the fastpass system compared to "regular" visitors who just stroll in to enjoy themselves and find themselves "blocked at every turn" by savvy "fans of Disney". In that sense, Disney caters to those who love Disney, which will not help them in the long run because for anyone to add to their customer base they have to appeal to all those people who DIDN'T care about Disney before they happened to plan a vacation there. If those "non-Disney" people find themselves shut out at every turn, they are unlikely to come back, right? But the Disney fans will keep coming no matter what. SO...it would be interesting to see if fastpass actually HURTS Disney attendance in the long run (THAT'D be ironic, wouldn't it?). It's a very "macro" kind of study though, the jury is still out I think. If they kill fastpass suddenly (I think TDLFAN will throw a weeklong party in O-town on THAT day lol), you'll know my theory was correct. As far as the "second class after fastpass has closed" though, don't you think that falls under your "first come first served" idea TDLFAN?
Originally Posted By Mr X **especially when you can get discounted rates as low as $55 a night some times.** THAT would be about the maximum I think those motels are worth (and yes, the "moderates" are motels as well...and how much do THOSE cost????).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***For those that bemoan the passing of the concept of "every man is equal" in terms of waiting in line, take a look around you and see what the world looks like today: special lines and/or limited waiting for "preferred" passengers at the airlines; special freeway lanes for those willing to pay exhorbitant toll fees for faster transit along crowded routes; special lounges and perks for hotel guests paying premium prices to stay on "concierge" levels.*** While I imagine the Disney management is salivating over the idea of promoting this "inevitable" idea you suggest...I would hope cooler heads might prevail on this one. It's fine for the airlines and the hotels, etc...BUT, one of the core concepts of Disney is that EVERYONE is a "special guest". While I can understand folks like TDLFAN complaining about fastpass being unfair, the fact is that everyone is free to take advantage of it if they wish and therefore all guests are still "created equal". If they start throwing out the vibe of "some guests are more important than others", I think a big chunk of the Disney "magic" will be all gone. Plus, doesn't everyone pretty much see those other amusement parks throwing in these systems as really unfair, cheezy, and overpriced? I sure did, when I visited Magic Mountain. It's a little different for a guy who shelled out THOUSANDS of extra dollars on an air ticket to get a few minutes less waiting time at the counter. In fact, that stuff doesn't bother me at all. But if Disney did it, they'd lose me as a patron FOREVER. And I don't think I'm the only one. PLUS, you've got the legions of annual pass folks who would be up in arms if that were to occur...BUT, the hotel angle is interesting because Disney COULD try to work it in such that it seems less "class oriented". After all, with all the Disney motels available ALL the "guests" can afford to stay there "if they really want to". *cue scary, insidious music*
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <**expensive on site -- all stars etc ?** VBDad, All-Stars is ABSOLUTELY expensive, are you kidding? It's a gaudily dressed up Motel-6, nothing more. For what, $100 a night or something?< most of the time people are paying in the 70's - and throw in the bus transportion and it is far from overpriced. It is not 1950 - it is not going to be $20 --
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey I happily pay the overpriced hotel rates at WDW. The hotel/motels, even the All Stars, are unlike any hotel/motel I've ever stayed in outside of WDW. It's magical, IMHO. Where else are you going to stay in a motel with a river (okay, it's really a creek, but still) flowing through the middle of the property, like POR and POFQ? Where else are you going to have disco dance floors and Twister games as part of the landscape, like Pop Century? I love the resorts. I love walking out to the bus stop and knowing I'll be at the parks in just a few minutes. I love spending time in the gift shops at the resorts. Call me an idiot and/or a sucker, but I have no intention of staying offsite - EVER.
Originally Posted By Mr X Where else are you going to have disco dance floors and Twister games as part of the landscape, like Pop Century? The question is, why would you WANT that?
Originally Posted By Mr X **Call me an idiot and/or a sucker, but I have no intention of staying offsite - EVER.** I would never call you those things, Nikki. What I will call you is their TARGET MARKET.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<What I will call you is their TARGET MARKET. >> So THAT'S why I hear all the cast members at WDTC saying "cha-ching!" in the background when I call .
Originally Posted By Shooba >>>For those that bemoan the passing of the concept of "every man is equal" in terms of waiting in line, take a look around you and see what the world looks like today: special lines and/or limited waiting for "preferred" passengers at the airlines; special freeway lanes for those willing to pay exhorbitant toll fees for faster transit along crowded routes; special lounges and perks for hotel guests paying premium prices to stay on "concierge" levels.<<< These are generally "extra" perks for people willing to pay extra. If I choose to pay the base rate at a hotel, I still get the basic services I need. If I don't pay a premium at the airport, my flight still leaves at the same time as the people paying extra. My concern about premium fastpass is that it would specifically diminish the value of regular admission. If I can get on less rides in a day than before, my $65 park ticket has lost value compared to before. WDW has a lot of guests. I paid for the front of the line access at a Six Flags park recently, but the number of people using it was so minimal, that it didn't really affect the regular ticket holders. I've seen the crowds at WDW Magic Hours and I don't think it would be good for everyone else if all those people had better access to Fastpass. In any case, this has indeed been predicted since the advent of Fastpass, so I wouldn't worry about it for now.
Originally Posted By DLer X: Your comment: "It's a little different for a guy who shelled out THOUSANDS of extra dollars on an air ticket to get a few minutes less waiting time at the counter. In fact, that stuff doesn't bother me at all. But if Disney did it, they'd lose me as a patron FOREVER. And I don't think I'm the only one." 1. I'd be willing to bet that it could well be a difference of thousands of dollars if you look at a family of four staying at the Grand Floridian and buying the all-inclusive resort activitives, dining and ticket package compared to the same family of four staying at an All-Star resort and buying the least expensive ticket option for four days. For families that could afford to pay extra for privileges, why not provide that incentive to spend a little bit more? It might also be the case that Disney might offer lower-cost packages for their less-expensive resorts featuring extra FP access to entice extra visitors during certain seasonal slow times. 2. With the Fastpass system and Disney's ability to allow any mediaholder various privileges (say, extra Fastpass access or the ability to hold more than one at any given time), who's to say that the rank and file park visitor would be any wiser that certain folks had extra privileges? As long as that day visitor got their Fastpass privilege they would probably feel all was right with the world. 3. I'm not sure that Annual Passholders will revolt if they feel that they are being denied access compared to out-of-towners paying top dollar. AP holders probably know when the good times to go to the parks are and know how to minimize the waits for their favorite attractions. If the Fastpass thing really became that big a deal, Disney could come up with some kind of plan to give APers more FPs on a given day or one day a month with such privileges. From a social perspective, the beauty of the FP system has Disney has designed it is that everybody on the outside looks the same - it's not like Universal or MM where somebody is displaying a special card or wristband to show how special they are. In the Disney FP system, it's the privileges granted by the software to a particular person's ticket media that identifies them to the FP system and grants them those priveleges.
Originally Posted By Mr X Good points, DLer... **As long as that day visitor got their Fastpass privilege they would probably feel all was right with the world.** That's my main point though. As long as FP is available to all at no cost, no problem (who cares if they hand out fastpasses "pre-approved" at the front desk of the Grand Floridian...noone would really be bothered by it). BUT, if they eliminate fastpass to all but hotel guests, or start charging outright for them...THEN it's not cool imho.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>AP holders probably know when the good times to go to the parks are and know how to minimize the waits for their favorite attractions.<< As an APer, I can tell you there is a long standby line in Soarin practically all day long, so there is no such thing as "the best time to go" in some cases. As long as someone is being allowed to the front ahead of someone who has been waiting longer, YES, you are 2nd class all the way, regardless of FP being "first come, first serve".
Originally Posted By Mr X As an APer, you should be smart enough to get a soarin fastpass in the morning, no? Seems to me that you ARE "first class", since you know the system better than most other visitors.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN As an APer... I don't have to go to the parks commando and be there in the morning. At WDW, I am not a tourist. Therefore FP has robbed the chance for us Apers who go into the park for few precious hours of being able to go into any one of our favorite rides, simply because FP is either gone, or the stand by lines are way too needlessly long.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN And just because I may know the system does not make it fair or should have to make me re-arrange my plans to make it fit into my few hours on every visit. You know about the FP stampedes guests do at TDR. THAT is the problem that FP has created at TDR and I do not agree with it. Pure and simple. I don't care to defend my point because frankly, it a waste of my time.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 OK, now I'm firghtened, this is the second thread in a row I find myself on the same side of the discussion with Mr X -- (j/k X - I said before we likely had as many things in common as we had completely opposite )- I'm an AP also and I could view that as a 2nd class AP as I live 1200 miles away. I cannot 'just drop in whenever' so my opportunities are far more limited to see attraction I want- and I also do not want to do the parks commando to get everything in during my trip. FP levels that playing field on any given day, as it is first come - first served that day. If I choose to sleep in - or play a round of golf - or yes work from the room, I do -- knowing that that was my priority that day so if the FP are gone - I wat in standby - I made that choice. If I really want to ride Soarin' - I get there and get my FP early - but we've all been down this path before - so I'll go no further.
Originally Posted By sun-n-fun ^^ I'm in the same boat as you, living so far away and having an AP. But beign frequent visitors (2X per year) we know if we really want to go on something that fills up we get there early. If not we take the risk of missing out on FP's. I'd love to drop in for a few hours once in a while, but that's not going to happen.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Yep - I'd love one day to say, well I'm off work a few hours early - maybe I'll take in Haunted Mansion or Soarin' - not an option. And all AP's cost the same regardless of where one lives
