Originally Posted By sjhym333 I saw the following on Screamscape: "The negotiations between Walt Disney World and one of the big local unions is getting nasty it seems, as a 20 minute documentary entitled “Mousetrapped 2010” has been screened for Disney Cast Members in hopes that they will vote against Disney’s latest contract offer. Health Care is always an issue in these things, as are pay raises, and from the sound of it, Disney is only offering 3% raises annually over the next three years… which is kind of crappy when you really get down to it. Theme Park employees don’t make much to begin with, so if your only making $8 / hr, a 3% raise is only 24 cents. It does seem hardly enough to cover the constantly increasing costs of health care. Case in point, one CM from the documentary is a Custodian and has worked for Disney for 17 years and makes only $13.57 an hour. According to the local news, pay range for any of the 20,000 CMs covered under the contract is between $16,000 and $33,000 a year." I especially found it intersting because just yesterday I ran into a AK Cast Member that I did not know but had her costume on so I stuck up a conversation. I had opened AK so we had some common ground. She then started talking about the current contract negotiations and said how disappointed she was with the raises being offered. She went on to say that after 10 years in the company she was thinking about moving on. She said that between the drive, the hours, the guests and the lousy raises being offered over three years she could do better working close to home.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Good. I'd love to see them go on strike. It's not something I'd usually root for, but a CM is criminally underpaid for the abuse they go through.
Originally Posted By -em >>Good. I'd love to see them go on strike. It's not something I'd usually root for, but a CM is criminally underpaid for the abuse they go through.<< Sad part is with the amount of CP/Part-time/Seasonal Labor + Office & Technical cast along with non-union FT Cast you'd see very very little operational impact. I'm curious to see how it will all play out though I doubt much if anything will change.. -em
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Haven't they had this problem in the past, and it all ends the same way it always does?
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Yes this has happened before but I cant ever remember the union taking a hard line stand like this. Usually they tend to cave before the contract runs out. Our local news ran portions of the video last night. Interesting.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros The hotel union at DLR has been without a contract for 3-4 years now because they haven't been able to come to terms with Disney. It seems like they're increasingly desperate with their more recent efforts to get in the spotlight, so I'm thinking they will cave soon.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Health Care is always an issue in these things, as are pay raises, and from the sound of it, Disney is only offering 3% raises annually over the next three years… >>> Other than healthcare, that sounds like it's more than keeping up with inflation. It was actually negative last year, and this year it's tracking slighting above 1%. So, 3% a year for 3 years sounds reasonable, at least in terms of it not setting back CM's even further (it doesn't address the overall "living wage" issues, but it's not as if that problem is ever going to be solved in a single contract negotiation). Several mentions have been made to healthcare increases, but I've seen no numbers. What is the "typical" CM facing in terms of healthcare cost increases, both in relation to just themselves and in relation to their overall compensation?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost My issues with union negotiations is that all you hear from any one side is that one side. There is always a back story and there is one for every single individual involved. As for the CM, in costume, bad mouthing Disney. Not only does she not deserve a raise, she doesn't even deserve a job. It is so completely unprofessional to do that. So unworthy of rewards that I am almost speechless concerning it. Do CM's deserve more money and a living wage...of course they do. How much more depends on the nature of their job and the degree of skill involved to do it. To stand out in the parking lot and point in the direction that cars need to travel...not so much. Jobs requiring acting, singing or dancing...yes. Maintenance people that have to have an extensive knowledge of equipment and how to fix them...yes. People picking up trash...not so much. We may feel that the worst jobs should pay the most, but reality is that this won't happen. I watched a youtube clip of people talking about the injustice of Disney. Most of them were behind the scene employees and appeared to not be overly educated. It was something that you could tell by listening and watching that there was a back-story to each one that was going a long way to complicate and exacerbate their particular financial situations. Still Disney should pay more but if, literally thousands of people are willing to work for that amount, it will never change significantly. When it becomes really difficult or almost impossible to recruit workers at those pay rates then and only then they will see significant pay increases.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have several feelings about the wage issue at Disney. My biggest issue is that Disney, despite what it says, is not the leader or even inline with the service industry in our area. Attractions/Parking CM's start at $7.65 an hour. The local McDonalds is starting at $8.25. $7.65 might not be so bad if within a year you are at $8.65 an hour. But the reality is that after a year you are still under $8.00 an hour. Under the current contract you would need to be at Disney over 3 years to be at around $8.50 an hour. Thats a long amount of time to invest in a job. My son started at a local supermarket in hight school 3 years ago. He started at $8.00 an hour and is over $10.00 an hour. That seems fair and reasonable. Insurance is a different beast. Disney offers several plans to their CM's. The average out of pocket expense for a CM who just has medical is probably around $25.00 a week. If you add dental, eye care and life insurance it is more money. The current average increase for next year was around $5.00 a week. So an hourly CM is probably paying $35.00 to $40.00 a week out of pocket. But if your only making under $8.00 a week I am sure it feels like a big chunk of change. I think it is easy to charachterize CM's jobs as easy. It is true that a CM in the parking lot (one of my favorite places I ever worked I might add)seems like an easy job of pointing and driving trams. But just think about the 98 degree day on that black asphalt or the daily summer rain showers or the winter days when the temps hit 20. Imagine standing in front of a moving car with a tourist driving it. I have seen more than one CM hit by car. Each job has its challenges. I have seen CM's hit, spit on, yelled at, called names and generally treated terribly. But Disney requires them to smile, be friendly and not respond. It is tough.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 "When it becomes really difficult or almost impossible to recruit workers at those pay rates then and only then they will see significant pay increases" But it has been difficult for Disney to recruit and keep workers. A couple of years back they needed to hire around 200 people a week just to stay even with people leaving. Last year that changed when the economy tanked, but Disney iz once again scrambling to fill positions. That is why you see so many college kids, international CM's and an older work force at the parks.
Originally Posted By HRM The question is.... Are Guests ready to pay significantly more to have CM paid more?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 average pay increases in the business world are just under 1% - and the increase in cost out of pocket for employee contribution to healtcare is 14%-16% increase -- more than 1/2 the employees in my company received nothing - and 16% was the out of pocket increase my wife works for a health group (4000 employees)- average increase 1.2% - average employee cost for benefits increase was 14% YTY my 26 year old daughter workds for a national child early education company- average raise 1.5% - average employee out of pocket health care increase 12% just fyi
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>I have several feelings about the wage issue at Disney. My biggest issue is that Disney, despite what it says, is not the leader or even inline with the service industry in our area. Attractions/Parking CM's start at $7.65 an hour. The local McDonalds is starting at $8.25. $7.65 might not be so bad if within a year you are at $8.65 an hour. But the reality is that after a year you are still under $8.00 an hour. Under the current contract you would need to be at Disney over 3 years to be at around $8.50 an hour. Thats a long amount of time to invest in a job. My son started at a local supermarket in hight school 3 years ago. He started at $8.00 an hour and is over $10.00 an hour. That seems fair and reasonable.<< >>But if your only making under $8.00 a week I am sure it feels like a big chunk of change. << These are significant points. Clearly a real problem. I don't know how anyone besides a college kid/retiree/someone on a short lived whim could work at Disney. I can't imagine how TDO can even consider any additional offerings at the resort when they can't staff what they have now. It also explains why they seem so eager to outsource and 3rd party everything they can. I still think that is short sighted, but I can see how they would think it would solve problems with staffing.
Originally Posted By Christi22222 I also think it is important to note that these wages would be more tolerable if they were a pathway to something better. It sounds as though that is not the case.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I know two people who started in retail-moved thru entertainment ( charcaters) - ride operators etc.. one into DVC sales and ultimately management and the other into the financial area of the business. I realize this is just a few - but trust me 'career paths ' don't exist any more in major corps either- they want you for 3-5 years- then adios. The wage issue @ Disney is part of a much larger economic issue....how do salaries compare with Sea World and Uni ? Is this a mouse only issue ?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper It is a service sector issue and it is largely driven by our need to be frugal. Wal Mart isn't the beast it is today if we cared more about quality than price.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Universal and Sea World have higher starting salaries. Though you will never get rich being a ride operator. Disney's public line is that when you look at the whole package: Salary, insurance, comp tickets, main gate pass and discounts, that they are compensating fairly. In fairness to Disney, what is a fair hourly salary for a front line CM? $8.00? $9.00? $10.00? Where I think Disney has missed the bus is in the amount of time it takes to reach the top salary of a job classification (and the union shares a lot of the responsability on this). I dont think it is right that it takes 12 years to reach top out. It used to be 5 years. Loyalty should be rewarded. I once asked a union shop steward how long it would take to top out as an attractions CM? They hemmed and hawed an finally said...I think it is around 12 years, but dont quote me on that. They then said that the contract was complex on that issue and she (with 25 years in the company) wasn't sure what the pay grade increases were. Pretty bad when the shop steward was unclear on the terms of the contract.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I know two people who started in retail-moved thru entertainment ( charcaters) - ride operators etc.. one into DVC sales and ultimately management and the other into the financial area of the business. I realize this is just a few - but trust me 'career paths ' don't exist any more in major corps either- they want you for 3-5 years- then adios. >>> That's kind of the way it has to be with any company that as lots of front-line, low-skill, low-experience workers. WDW has them by tens of thousands, but there are only so few management positions. There simply can't be a career path for everyone hired at an entry-level position and sticks with it for 5 years to advance into management for the next 35 years of their working life. It does give Disney an opportunity to "promote from within" who gets into management, and be very selective about the process.
