Originally Posted By Daannzzz <a href="http://advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/02/02/Utah_Strict_Bill_to_Exclude_Gay_Families/" target="_blank">http://advocate.com/News/Daily...amilies/</a> Sometimes it seems that things are getting worse.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The part that I don't understand is the perverse pride that Utahns feels about themselves. Any sensible person would be mortified with shame over these kinds of news stories that continue to come from these peculiar people. In this case, the loud and frequent proclamations about how the "family" is the central unit and is to be supported and nurtured is shown to be paper thin. What they're really interested in doing is oppressing gays - as well as any children that happen to be associated with them. All the false piety and sanctimony they espouse is just to cover their deep rooted hatred and fears. And all the while they congratulate themselves on what "great americans" they are. For those that might have missed it, the Utah state senate voted to declare the semi-automatic pistol the "official gun of Utah". This was jast week - in the wake of the Tucson shooting of a democratic politican and a dozen others - with a semiautomatic pistol. Such shameful people.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I've gotten to the point where none of the outrageous head shaking things that the right wing does surprise me anymore. Here's another mind-boggling story about how a Utah Republican congressman campaigning to make a firearm a symbol of his state: <a href="http://www.npr.org/2011/01/27/133280682/Plans-For-Utah-State-Gun-Spark-Outrage" target="_blank">http://www.npr.org/2011/01/27/...-Outrage</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc This is the time of year when I studiously avoid local news. Every year it's a quest to see who can be the most offensive, wackiest state legislator. Mandate firearms in schools? Why not! In Salt Lake we're usually immune to this garbage. Get into rural Utah and it feels like you stepped out of Doc Brown's Delorean into the 1950s. It's fantastic if you're a straight white male over 21. And it helps if you love horses, guns, the Bible, and Glenn Beck. Two things in fairness: the bill doesn't ban gay families, it just makes it extremely difficult to qualify for any state funding or programs that benefit families. The insidious bigotry and hatred is more subtle than "banning" families. Second, any legislator can file any bill. Fortunately, even here the most insane stuff doesn't fly.
Originally Posted By ecdc BTW, I really don't get the conservative love of state government. Here in god-fearing Utah, our legislature is incredibly corrupt. Our speaker, Becky Lockhart, had all sorts of state funds funneled to her husband's businesses. Any time I hear about state governments, regardless of party control, the corruption is just off the charts.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I really don't get the conservative love of state government<< >>Any time I hear about state governments, regardless of party control, the corruption is just off the charts.<< I think you answered you own question. ; )
Originally Posted By utahjosh <Any time I hear about state governments, regardless of party control, the corruption is just off the charts.> Thank goodness for the Federal Government. Or city governments. No corruption there!
Originally Posted By Labuda "What the heck does a state need an "official gun" for anyway??? " Wow... I just checked and even we here in Texas (home of the "if they step on your property you can shoot them dead" law), we don't have an official state gun. Thank you, God, for that small favor.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Wow... I just checked and even we here in Texas (home of the "if they step on your property you can shoot them dead" law), we don't have an official state gun." If adopted Utah would be the first state to have embraced this dumb idea. All I can do is shake my head at the thought of it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I don't see the need for a state gun. Waste of time if you ask me. However, I think guns are amazing tools that have served our nation for centuries. They've also been used for evil.
Originally Posted By barboy ///guns are amazing tools that have served our nation for centuries./// Exactly, how else do you think all of us would have arrived. This is my rifle This is my gun This is for fighting This is for fun Sgt. Hartman
Originally Posted By imadisneygal Banning gay families is like banning gravity. They'll still be there regardless, living their lives.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***However, I think guns are amazing tools that have served our nation for centuries. They've also been used for evil*** Might as well say the same thing about nuclear bombs. Well, except for the 'centuries' part.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<However, I think guns are amazing tools that have served our nation For centuries.>> I'm sorry, but what?? Do you really think that the world is a better place because we have guns? How exactly have guns been "amazing tools"?
Originally Posted By Mr X I assume he means for hunting, although you hardly *need* a gun for a successful hunt, not even in the old days. Traps, bows and arrows, knives, there are plenty of ways to hunt. And these days, it's not even a necessity whatsoever. I'm pretty sure the slaughterhouses don't use em, ever find a bullet in your McChicken sandwich? These days, the only way a gun serves as "an amazing tool" is if you enjoy the recreational hunting of animals, which I personally find distasteful but might feel otherwise if I really loved the taste of venison (I do not), and couldn't get it at the supermarket.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <How exactly have guns been "amazing tools"? > Ask General Patton. Ask General Washington. Ask the millions of Americans who used them to feed their families. I don't like the idea of a state gun. But I don't find it repulsive, and I don't think guns are bad things.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Ask General Patton. Ask General Washington.>> People will make war with any weapons they have, so I don't see how "the gun" was a deciding factor there. If we had never invented that weapon, they would have used others. Wars do not make guns "amazing". <<Ask the millions of Americans who used them to feed their families.>> And they couldn't have feed them without guns? Are you really claiming that they were necessary for survival? Look, I get that because guns have been invented, and the military has access to them, that ordinary citizens should too. BUT, that doesn't make them an "amazing tool that has served our nation". That makes them a sad reality that we should all be ashamed of.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <BUT, that doesn't make them an "amazing tool that has served our nation". That makes them a sad reality that we should all be ashamed of.> I disagree. The actions of some who use guns for evil are what we should be ashamed of. The classic debate.
